Other's like me??

[TylerFrames]

Thanks for your responses to my previous topics...I appreciate them!

I have a custom picture framing shop attached to my home. Being so, it is in a resedential area and I find it difficult to "lure" customers into my area and shop. I do have a loyal group of customers, but I would like to expand that group. I have advertised in several of the local papers, attended/participated in art shows with a booth, had an open house and done mailings to specific groups.

Do you have any ideas or suggestions for advertising or expanding to include other services or products? Also, I would really like to be able to e-mail with others who are running a frame shop in your home.

Thanks again for responding to me...I look forward to your suggestions!!

Greg in Winthrop Maine.
e-mail: TylerFrames@aol.com

[Bob Carter]

Sure-get a retail location where customers expect you to be. It's a lot easier for you to change your ideas to conform to the market than the other way around

[lise]

Greg,
Bob's response is fairly typical of many of the framers on this site. There is a certain uneasiness and predjudice(insecurity) toward home based framers. You will find that most home-based framers are either anonymous or have been shamed away from this forum.

We started out homebased (very successfull at $150,000 +) but went retail for reasons other than are hinted at.
If you would like, I will e-mail you some information that made our business a success.
I am no longer nervous about the many other home based businesses because I realize what the pros and cons of each are. I would never go back to being home-based.

Just offering a different perspective and best wishes in what can be an extremely challenging but rewarding (if you play it right) situation.

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Lisa Kozokowsky C.G.A.H.
Frameswest Inc.

[Rick]

I know what your talking about Tyler, I do some framing from home and I wish it could grow to the point I don't have to work for another shop myself. It's not like you can stick a neon sign in your front yard.
My plan is to go on the web for more business. I am learing how to build interactive web pages.(i.e. the gruble)
I am working on a site where artists and photographers can order their mats through the website and have them delivered to them by mail or delivery. I talked to a local supplier and asked him for some mat specifiers I could send by mail to my future clients so they know the mat numbers when they order. He gave me a few, and told me as long as I kept ordering from him, he could keep them coming as I needed.
I also want to have a page where companies could search a database of ready made options for commercial framing. They will be able to choose a the frame and whether they want one or two mats, or clear or non-glare. Once they are happy with the selection, they will get the price per order as well as any discount for large orders all with out leaving the office. They will even be able to print the finish selection out and show it to the boss with the price quote. I really don't know if this will work but what else do I have to do on my day off. Anyway, keep in touch with me and I'll let you know how things are going. Maybe I could build on for you.

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If you don't take care of your tools, they won't take care of you.

[Bob Carter]

I sure thought I was giving a fair and frank opinion on what Greg could do to "lure" customers to his location. Nothing insecure or prejudicial about it. In fact, Greg, contact your local univeristy's business school and ask them the same question. I'm sure it would be a fair and frank response, also. Nothing beats location. Period.

[This message has been edited by Bob Carter (edited March 22, 2001).]

[Charles Lowry]

We started out years ago in our home. We did pretty well, but Janet, having been a business person, wanted a store-front. Bob is right in his observation. Our business, from the SAME customers we had when at home, quadrupled!! When asked, they all said it was easier to come to a store in town than to trek out to our house. Our house is a short, three mile drive through the country, not the boondocks. I also think that people feel less 'in a business' when they have to come to a residence. Another comment we heard was that it was easier to find us in a town location. Most are familiar with downtown, but not turning to the left at the third tobacco barn.

The bottom line is, our business shot through the roof in a store, compared to when it was at home.

Try it, you'll like it.

[This message has been edited by Charles Lowry (edited March 22, 2001).]

[Cookie]

Greg - yes there are other home-based framers here - I'm one http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif

Questions for you - what are the zoning codes in your area? Here, I can't put out a sign and need to be careful about people coming & going. I work by referral and appointment so I'm not a bother to neighbors. Actually they like me - I do all their framing.

I'm sure different areas of the country work differently (that's profound!) When I was visiting friends in New Hampshire, I noticed many many shops of all types were attached to homes but were sort of a retail space too. It seemed to be a very popular way of doing business and they were allowed to have signs & advertising. I see you are in Maine. What is the situation there?

Working from home for me is just a life-style choice. I give up customer volume for the convenience of being home-based due to current family situations where I am needed to be available. I don't have all the options retailers have (yes Larson dumped me) but right now that's OK. I still think I may open a shop in a few years when family situations change.

I guess I'm telling you I don't have any great answers for more business other than sell service.
Do you go to local networking groups? Do be sure you are licensed and obeying all local ordinances.

Maybe just have a lower volume & higher prices http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif

[Janet]

When beginning my framing business from our home, I spoke to EVERY group in Clayton ie:
The Woman's Club, The Rotary Club, The Jr. Woman's Club, Mother's Morning Out Club. If there was a club in Clayton, I was on their speaker's list for that 1st year in business. The 10 samples of my work always related to whatever group I was speaking with. If it was the Rotary Club, I took framed Rotary certificates, business licensing certificates, framed newspaper articles on new business openings, etc. If I was speaking to the Jr. Woman's Club, I took shadowboxed baby clothing, framed wedding portraits, family portraits, etc. When I spoke to the Woman's Club (an age group of 50-80 year olds, I took before and after samples of updating old framed pieces they had in their homes. The Jr. Woman's Club group is a great one as they are having babies, building homes, decorating and constantly entertaining.

As Charles mentioned above, I had built a good customer base, but I never knew until moving downtown just what an impact it would have on my business. By far, if you want a sporadic business, stay in your home-based shop. If you want an income producing business, get a store front in your area's business district and get VERY involved in all the community groups. You cannot do this as a one-shot investment in an organization. You MUST become an integral part of the organization and prove yourself to your business community. In other words, you have to do more than JUST pay your dues!

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How cheap do you want it to look??

[MerpsMom]

Oh, well, fudge. We've been up and down this path so many times, we're footsoldiers. Those of us who've been around the discussion forever seem to have come to an equitable understanding. At least, there are fewer brickbats.

We all have different goals, of course. Neither side is right or wrong if the personal choice satisfies them. I applaud all of you who have that fire to drive over the top: that's a great feeling. I applaud those who continue to work at the business in another mode, such as Cookie. I applaud all of you...period. You care and share your interest and knowledge with each other, and all boats rise with the doing of it. I'm happy as a niche framer in my alternative-based locale, and I scrap it up with my store-front buddies who are equally as happy as I. Cheers to us all.
http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif

---------"I don't care where your business is."

[Jean McLean]

Greg: I had to reply as I am about 2 1/2 hrs. north of you. I built a studio next to my home over the garage as a place for me to paint in and do my own framing. Friends who also painted asked for favors...frame their's. For years I did this and never charged for my time. I didn't mind the work- at-home atmosphere as I was raising 4 kids and wanted to be home for them, etc. After years of doing this my framing became more time demanding than I wanted and could find no time to paint so I hired help. Well, it didn't get better. Still no time to paint. Someone had to train the help. Well, the framing business grew more and more and finally this fall I knew I had enough. I moved out of my house and opened a new gallery, frame shop. Now I am getting lots of new customers who never came to my house. I asked why they didn't and most of them said they always felt they were bothering me at home and were sooooo glad I move out. I really don't expect to make any profit this year and just hope to make enough to pay the rent, lights, help, etc. I am focusing on expanding the framing business enough to pay the help and sell enough art and photography in the gallery to make a profit. Meanwhile, it has freed my home studio up so I can finally have a place to paint in again! That is where the $ is for me! Jean McLean

[OregonJay]

Greg

Hi! I've been around the "barn" several times and do not have any particular prejudice toward "non-traditional" framers.

Here's a suggestion EVERYONE can try. I have and it is pretty cool. I learned it from a guy named Murry Raphel and he called it his 4x4 method guaranteed to boost business.

1. Every week make sure you hand out 4 of your business cards.
2. Every week contact (by phone or mail)4 of your old customers and thank them for doing business with you.
3. Every week ASK 4 people if you can do some framing for them.
4. Every week contact 4 new customers (by mail or by phone) and let them know you are in business and ready to help them.

It really does not take much time and it can REALLY make a big difference!

Good luck to you!

-OJay

[PAMELA DESIMONE,CPF]

If the framers giving you the advice to find a retail location were harboring any predjudice or fear, they would be telling you to stay where you are. I would worry more about another store-front framer opening up near me than I would someone opening a shop in their home. I have to agree with the majority and advise you to open a shop in a retail shopping location. You have to make it easy for people to find you and get to you. One of my stores is two doors down from Dunkin'Donuts, and the other is right next to Subway. We get noticed, and it is easy to give directions to those who call. The only advertising I now do is an ad in the Yellow Pages. I don't run sales on framing, so running an ad telling people how terrific I am is a waste of money. My business has been built customer-by-customer, doing a great job for them and letting them spread the word. It takes time to do it this way, but I did not want to go after the price shopper. A referral from a satisfied customer is the best ad you don't have to pay for.

[Bob Carter]

Pam-Thanks for understanding my post. Today, i received some lovely hate e-mail from some home-based framers. I was called everything from, well, you get the drift. I don't
care where you locate your operation and as Pam has suggested, a home-based operation is so much less a threat than any other store front operation. But I think the single biggest detriment to growth is location, and Tyler has indicated, he has tried everything: trade shows,mailings, advertising-the whole nine yards. Except the one thing I suggested; Go to the people. The closer to the fire, the warmer you get. But the fire probably isn't going to come to you. Like I replied to one particularly mad framer in Alaska, If I want to see the Mendenhall Glacier, I'm going to have to go to Juneau, and she wants to see the Grand Canyon, she's going to have to come to Arizona. It's just easier to go where the action is than making the action come to you. By the way, if she tore down her house and built a store on the same location, my advice would be the same

[Charles Lowry]

Bob, you silver-tongued devil!! You said what I couldn't. Go get 'em!!

[Cookie]

Bob - sorry to hear you got hate mail from home-based framers. I frankly didn't take your post as anti-home based. Actually I agree with you and what I was also trying to get across was that there are trade-offs and as a home-based framer, one of those is most likely to be less volume. Just the way it is.

Now all you HBF's lets be nice http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/wink.gif

[MerpsMom]

I don't know any OBF's who aren't nice: but then maybe that's because only the nice ones post publicly that they are OBF. Sorry, Bob, you know most of us like you. http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif

Agreement from here with Cookie, as usual. If I wanted to burn up the world, I'd dive into the pyre. I have enough work, but go you guys, and best wishes on a good location.

[Greg Gomon]

OregonJay is right on the money!!!!
I practice the 4x4 philosophy (although I didn't know the name for it)and it really works. This time of the year it really makes a HUGE difference in our bottom line. March is historically slow in our business, this year especially so due to the economy, California energy crisis, tax season. Make those phone calls, see new customers, pass out business cards, call old customers. Bottom line, do whatever it takes, go wherever it takes you. Offer to go to their house to design framing. If you can get a home invite, it is absolutely amazing what you can find to frame. A stock broker friend of mine had another expression for this type ofnetworking; he called it keeping the pipeline full. Good luck!

[FramerDave]

Just curious....what do the local zoning laws say about running a business like that out of your home?

[curly]

I wonder what a home based framer would say if a home based framer opened up next door?

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curlyframer, CPF

[Marc Lzier]

mail to hbfn@list.to with the word ' subscribe ' within the body (not the subject).

It is the e-mail list you seek

[Mel]

Goodness. So many things to response to, so little time.

Sorry Bob that some folks misunderstood. I thought you were clear.

MM: What's OBF. Oh. Duh. Other-based framers.

FramerDave: I comply in full. But in Oregon there is no sales tax, so no resale numbers. That was a problem recently when I tried to buy some blue-label Maxim from the Maxim people. And I can't find it anywhere else. I'm outside city limits, so I don't have to pay the $80/year license fee. Federal taxes and Social Security are paid. No other taxes are required here. Others are less lucky.

Curly: One did, if you can say eight miles away is your neighbor. Another person on another ranch here is making his own moulding from old wood and making frames. I'm not threatened. We do very different kinds of framing.

Cookie: As for lifestyle, you said it perfectly. In fact, I'm too busy right now for my "lifestyle" and have instituted a tickler system to call back my customers to make appointments for design work. Now, Bob, I know this is the height of bad business practices, but I'm swamped. (Also, I'm the only game in town for the higher-end type of framing I do.)

Finally, on point: My best advice is to get the best education and trade magazines, do the best quality work, treat your customers like they're all special, go the extra mile, deliver, and be genuine but make the whole experience a really good one. They'll tell their friends.

[curly]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mel:
Curly: One did, if you can say eight miles away is your neighbor. Another person on another ranch here is making his own moulding from old wood and making frames. I'm not threatened. We do very different kinds of framing.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry Mel, Eight Miles is not in the neighborhood. I find it curious that home based framers complain that the rest of us pick on them, but they won't respond to my comment about another homie opening next to them. (Now that I can I be called a "True Grumbler" I should act as one!)


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curlyframer, CPF

[This message has been edited by curly (edited April 16, 2001).]

[luke]

The small shop indeed, home based or corner lot We"re swamped with plenty mostly by word of mouth and that cute little sticker on the back as a reminder of who did the work. I find myself doing a lot of odd jobs other shops refuse small stuff and large goodies. My work area is tight 16x36 but I,m not a gallery, sure I hang work done for all to see but thats it. But donated work to schools and offices an charities help get the word out. just dont forget the placard with name and shop. Luke W

[MerpsMom]

Well, now, curly. We'd probably do the same thing you would: call 'em up, exchange coffee, and make friends of 'em. What's the big deal?? http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif

[curly]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MerpsMom:
. What's the big deal?? http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
MM-
The big deal is I've had too many Homies and Retailers open up with "fly by night" tactics aimed at taking business from me and other retail framers just to get their foot in the door. I've worked too hard over the last 24+ years to have some knucklehead bring me down. I have 12 employees that rely on me to pay them every week. Don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge anyone opening a legitimate business operation. I've just seen too many cheap shots over the years. In another thread, I described how a competing shop changed their awning/storefront colors 3 (yes three) times because I had. I've had a homie sell mats, frames and framing at their cost. Why? Because they were "retired and they wanted a hobby". (They told a salesman that). I welcome any competition, just let's play on a level field.



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curlyframer, CPF

[MerpsMom]

I was just ragging you a little, curly. No offense meant.

[JPete]

Curly, so you don't feel alone, I do understand what you are saying. It's really the hobbists who work for a large corporation, joins the local service club, promotes prints as a promotion for the club and then frames as many as they can cheap. They like that little extra pocket money.

[Jim Miller]

We have some home-based framers in our area, and they are all reasonably-good framers and business people. Their prices are lower than mine, but they charge enough to turn a profit. Their quality and selection can't match mine, but they do serve their customers. They are respectable businesses; I have no complaints with them.

However, if the business is done purposely at a loss, with no regard for others who are committed to earn a living; or if the skill level is amateur or the quality is poor; or if the owner fails to abide by applicable laws (taxes come to mind); then I too would probably feel as resentful as some Grumblers.

In other words, it's not the location of a business that matters -- it's the quality and legitimacy of the business itself.

[curly]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jim Miller:
In other words, it's not the location of a business that matters -- it's the quality and legitimacy of the business itself.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sorry If I seemed to vent in my last post. I think Jim's last line above is very succinct and to the point.



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curlyframer, CPF

[Mel]

Jim's last statement is most important. Believe it of not, there are some towns where the OBF is the professional (and charges like one), not the other way around.

[PAMELA DESIMONE,CPF]

Say what you want, but you will never convince me location is not important. I know from experience that it is.