Laminating Question

[ctc]

How many of you do laminating? I have a VacSeal model 3646M-HS. I have been asked by our local Library to laminate items for them. I have been told that Seal laminating film #2508m is no longer made. Do any of you use Seal Print Guard and how do you price it out. Is there any other laminating film suppliers?

[Framerguy]

Hi ctc and welcome to the Grumble.

I use Drytac laminating film. I buy the pre-perforated type as I don't have a Seal perforator tool and they cost quite a bit to buy. I am not sure if Print Guard comes pre-perforated or not but you should make sure that the brand you purchase IS pre-perforated if you don't have any way to add the perforations. If not, you will surely trap air under the laminate and ruin the job.

Framerguy

[Ron Eggers]

I have used the Vacuseal 40x60 press with Print Guard and the perf tool and have had unpredictable results. For me, it is MUCH scarier than dry mounting, so I will not laminate anything that can not be easily and cheaply replaced. No doubt this will earn me another call or visit from Hunt/Seal/Bienfang but it seems to me these presses were never really designed for laminating.

For dry mounting, this press has been the most reliable workhorse in my shop for about 18 years.

Ron

[Framerguy]

Originally posted by Ron Eggers:
I have used the Vacuseal 40x60 press with Print Guard and the perf tool and have had unpredictable results. For me, it is MUCH scarier than dry mounting, so I will not laminate anything that can not be easily and cheaply replaced. No doubt this will earn me another call or visit from Hunt/Seal/Bienfang but it seems to me these presses were never really designed for laminating.

For dry mounting, this press has been the most reliable workhorse in my shop for about 18 years.

RonI have to agree with Ron, (or he'll whimper! tongue.gif ), I still have a full roll of Print Guard that I ordered years ago not knowing that it required an $80.00 perforator tool. I learned the hard way by trying to use Print Guard right off the roll. It was disastrous! I trapped more air under that laminate than most people can breathe in one breath!

I forgot to mention that using pre-perforated laminating material requires a rather long dwell time and higher temperature to function correctly. I usually set my Seal press at 8 minutes and temp at 220º. If you check the lamination and it has little "dots" on it place it back in the press for another 3 minutes. It hasn't pulled all of the air out from around the pin holes and sealed the holes shut yet so a few minutes more should take care of that problem.

I would recommend practicing with some cheap images first to get a feel for your settings on your machine. They will probably vary from the settings I use. When you get them right, the lamination works really well and gives the poster/whatever image a nice matte appearance.

Framerguy

[EllenAtHowards]

Some things life is too short to deal with. I send them to our local sign guy. He laminates. I frame. OK, so I occasionally drymount too... but not tooo big.(he gets those jobs too) I eat enough antacids as it is....

[ctc]

Thanks for the help-I found out the school laminates. I think I'll let them deal with the problem. Sounds like more trouble than its worth. Thanks ctc

[Mel]

Okay. Here comes the dumb question. Do you need to perforate the laminate sheet for everything ? Or do you need to perforate only if you are laminating an RC photo? I ask because I've laminated a few matboard signs, and had no problem at all--no perforating done and didn't seem to be necessary.

I read the books, but did I miss something? :confused:

[tnframer408]

I'm with Ron and the others: we do laminate, but the chances of screwing up are too numerous.

We perforate anything glossy or coated, like for most posters if they're on coated stock. Something's gotta breathe: either the piece being laminaed or the laminate itself. that's why it needs holes.

As some of you know, we're right next to a Kinko's I give them all my laminate business, and they refer those doing the laminating to me for framing.

Works well for both of us. graemlins/icon21.gif graemlins/icon21.gif graemlins/icon21.gif

[Nick Evans]

We use laminating film from Print-Mount. It is already perforated.

[Kit]

Nick, can you post a link for PrintMount, please.

I love the look of the linen finish print guard but won't use it on anything that is not easily replaceable. I've been blaming the undependable results on my lack of a perforating tool. While I wait for that purchase order to come through, it's just me and my straight pin redface.gif

Kit

[Ron Eggers]

Sounds like my Seal perforating tool is a hot item. I doubt I'll ever use it again and could probably be persuaded to part with it.

If I ever see it again (I haven't finished unpacking - Don't expect to EVER finish,) I'll start accepting bids.

Ron

[Nick Evans]

Print Mount is in Cranston, RI. Phone is 800-531-9690. Usually you'll get Skip, the owner. They have pre-pierced laminate; in gloss, heavy-duty gloss, satin matte(2mil), matte(3mil), line, canvas and heavy-duty canvas. Also a polyester hi-gloss for posters, and can make a wipe-on/wipe-off surface. They have a good line of dry mounting adhesives, also. Versamount in our favorite because it will self trim.
We've used their products for about ten years; never had a problem. Their heat-vacuum press is very good.

[Kit]

Ron - I'll trade you an almost full case of Speed Mount for the perf tool. Tom, of Tom's Diner, is willing to host the exchange.

[calley]

Okay guys ..... are we talking about laminating or encapsulation here??? Laminating would be to replace glass over an image, encapsulation would be to place a protective film over something like a menu.

Encapsulation can be done in a drymounting press, but it is a time consuming process as the piece should be placed into the press twice - once to do one side and then flipped over to do the other (remember the heat in a press is only from one side - in a roller laminating machine there is usually an upper and a lower roll of film and when you feed something through the laminator where the image meets both rolls of film, you have a heat source on the top and the bottom).

Laminating (using Printguard laminating film, or the competition's) to replace glass can be easily done in either a mechanical press or a vacuum press. Yes, you do need to work at a slightly higher temperature (210-215) and a slightly longer dwell time (7-12 minutes depending on the size of the piece). Perforation does need to be done on photos or extremely glossy papers where the air would have difficulty or would not be able to escape downwards through the image and substrate. For regular papers, where air getting trapped is not an issue, perforation is not a necessity. When you are perforating your laminating film make sure you perforate with the film side up, not paper side up. If you perforate with the paper side up, you will push paper fibers into the holes you are creating in the film and they may not close or disappear completely.

Don't rule out laminating! (Remember we are talking lamination not encapsulation here - if you want to offer encapsulation get the proper machine for that job!) There are situations where glass over an image may not be the best idea - children's rooms, senior's centres, correctional facilities - places where artwork is wanted but the option of glass is not. By offering laminating to your customers you can complete these jobs and keep the dollars in house! graemlins/icon21.gif

[katman]

I've often wondered whether those perforating tools are worth the investment. We do our laminating and encapsulating on a Seal roller laminator. Only time we have ever had a problem is when we try laminating or encapsulating something that is not dry--like an inkjet print that hasn't cured. Some will never cure if the inks and paper aren't a good match. When in doubt we preheat in our heat press. We use unperforated roll laminates, about 50 psi at about 210 F. Have had no problems with RC photographs.

[Ron Eggers]

Originally posted by Kit:
Ron - I'll trade you an almost full case of Speed Mount for the perf tool. Tom, of Tom's Diner, is willing to host the exchange.I'll start searching my basement, which looks a lot like the storage in the closing scenes of Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Not sure about the Speed Mount yet, but it'd be a good excuse to take a drive.

Ron

[GUMBY, GCF]

two small tips if you can not justifiy the $80.00 perforator
Try a pounce wheel made for sign painters and pattermn makers sold at at supply stores ( real art supply stores) cooksartsupply@aol.com or ask at Howards Art Supply & Framing. The other tip is there is a tool to remove wall paper does the samething. sold at Home depot :D :D :D
Jim OHIO