Object Mounting

[Ron Eggers]

I have some golf balls to frame (customer's husband shot two holes-in-one last summer) so I went shopping for tulle this evening.

Not too long ago, I would have siliconed the suckers and never given it another thought. But now I have Rebecca sitting on my shoulder, like Jimminy Cricket, saying, "Don't do it, Ron."

I never heard of tulle until recently, so I assumed that the fabric stores hadn't either. The first one I walked into had a bridal department. Guys don't like to browse in bridal departments, but I remember hearing on TG that tulle was a "bridal" product.

They had tulle circles, tulle by-the-yard, tulle in eight different colors. For three bucks, I got enough white tulle to last me until retirement. I felt so invigorated that I looked around the quilting department, but decided to consult with Kit before I bought any new toys.

The tulle looks great around the golf balls, which is to say it almost disappears. I am almost as excited as I was when I got my first sheets of Coroplast in.

I also have a revolver to frame, so I stopped by the building center and got an assortment of brass and steel rods and some shrink tubing.

Finally, I have a stainless steel shovel - used in a ground-breaking ceremony - to frame. I'm thinking of using cable ties to secure it to the suede backing (which will be further backed with 6mm Coroplast.) It's stainless steel, for heaven's sake, so I can't imagine the cable ties will hurt the shovel. I've used these for wiring trailer lights and they've held up well through all kinds of outdoor extremes. Can anyone think of a compelling reason why I shouldn't do this, assuming they blend in nicely?

Thanks to Jim Miller and many others for introducing me to the joys of non-invasive object mounting. I feel just like a kid in a <strike>bridal</strike> candy shop.

BTW, I learned that tulle is pronounced "tool," not "toolie" and that it's named for the city in France where it was developed. Those women in the fabric store know their stuff.

[Rebecca]

Ron, you used mm as your measuring system! Don't tell me your going metric!?

I'm glad you're having fun with fabric. :cool: Jim will be proud.

Slightly off topic, I have another accolade to sing re Coroplast backings. Just been attending a HVAC (Heating Ventilation and Air Conditioning) system malfunction, which raised humidity to dew point. Paintings on canvas that had Coroplast backings fared the best. Framed pieces too. Paper art with tight frames and paper/cardboard backings (humidity permiable) fared the worst (tight ripples at edges).

Rebecca

[Ron Eggers]

Rebecca, my vendor lists Coroplast as 6mm, which seems to be a good 1/4", and 4mm, which actually appears to be only 1/8". I'm now stocking both thicknesses in clear. I expect my affection for the stuff will only increase when I start mounting heavy objects, like shovels, on it.

I'm going to try the cable ties with it today.

[Ron Eggers]

I received an email from a Grumbler wondering about tulle. Since some others may have the same questions, I'll post some links here instead of replying privately.

BTW, the first mention of tulle I could find on TG was from March of 2001, so it's not like this stuff has been used by generations of framers.

Tulle is a sheer nylon "netting" used for wedding veils, among other things. It comes in colors, apparently is quite strong and is not invisible, but is quite unobtrusive when wrapped around objects. It is also readily available from fabric and craft stores.

My plan is to cut holes in the suede backing board so that about a third of the golf balls will sink. I'll probably use a hole saw and drill to put holes in the Coroplast as well. I'll wrap the golf balls with the tulle, pull the bunched tulle through the backing hole and secure it to the Coroplast with hot glue. I should be able to rotate the ball before closing the frame so that the preferred surface is showing. No glue will come in contact with the golf balls.

Here are some Grumble links about tulle:

Mounting Pool Balls (http://thegrumble.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003976)
Delicate Fabrics (http://thegrumble.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002215)
Tulle query (http://thegrumble.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002011)
Tea Brick (http://thegrumble.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002168)
Japanese Hinging (http://thegrumble.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001464)

P.S. If anyone who has actually USED tulle would like to add anything here, this thread could become a tulle tome for future tulliers.

I feel a little like I'm writing about pregnancy.

[Less]

Thanks for the story about your adventures with toolie and the girlie shop.

I remember my first few needlework jobs, actually having to handle needle and thread, not very manly.

I rather enjoy needlework and object mounting now.

I have been meaning to take a similar trip for years to look for tulle, to get a hands on sense how I could use it. I have to say, with this project, unless the golf balls were signed or had Thomas Kincade DNA on them, I would screw them in from the back for maximum visibility.

[Curly Grumble]

Originally posted by lessafinger:
I have to say, with this project, unless the golf balls were signed or had Thomas Kincade DNA on them, I would screw them in from the back for maximum visibility.As a golfer and framer, I'd have to agree with Less. (Never thought I'd say that! ;) ) Thousands and thousands of "Hole-in-one"(s) are made each year. They only matter to the individual who makes them. I've had great success predrilling a hole and then using a drywall screw. I've also used good ol' clear silicone. I tryed it first and it peeled off later when it was dry. I don't know what Tiger Woods would do but I know that mine won't have any "girlie" fabric touching it.

[Ron Eggers]

They only matter to the individual who makes them. In this case the wife of said golfer is paying me many hundreds of dollars to NOT mutilate her husband's balls :D so I guess they must matter to her as well.

Except for the unscheduled trip to the fabric store, I think the tulle method may actually be a pretty simple way to mount these. I'll let you know after I've actually done it.

Sometimes esoteric framing techniques are worth using just to dazzle our customers, even if they amount to overkill. I'm perfectly serious about this.

[Rebecca]

Perhaps it's a mindset, but I don't understand why one would use a destructive method of display and framing when a non-destructive method is so easily available.

Think of memorabilia framing as mini-museum displays for private owners. I don't think they're drilling too many holes through golf balls at Sport Halls of Fame. The artifact is important to the owner and they are relying on the framer for professional, non-destructive display techniques.

Rebecca

[RozR]

What a spirited discussion. Couldn't resist piping in...

I don't think I would want to see Tulle over a golf ball - just doesn't seem right to interfere with the visual presence of a golf ball... it shines, it has texture... it will probably never be used again... I would say that a historic article should have non-invasive process but a golf ball - I would want the "look" to be the best! What about a double "shelf" that would hold it from top and bottom with a small circle cut to keep it in place?

Just my two cents!

[fttom]

Several points to make here:

1) All you big "he-men": you can get tulle circles at your nearest craft store, and stay out of the fabric stores. Wouldn't want you to come in contact with any lace or anything.

2)The tulle really does disappear if you use it the same color as what you are framing, and then get it in the shadow box, and get the glass over it. You'll never know that it's there. Also, no damage to the "art", which is, after all, what we want to do, is it not???

3) secure it to the Coroplast with hot glue Ron, lose the hot glue gun. Hot glue will probably melt the tulle. Tulle is a nylon based product with a very, very low melting point. You'll be much better off using some Cornerweld, and tape for the Cornerweld to set. Then, even better is a craft glue that is called E6000. This stuff has the holding power of steel. I haven't found anything, yet, that it won't glue. It is my glue of last resort. Never use it anywhere that you want to remove the glue, but if you need a super holding glue, this is the stuff.

4) Ok. That's my 2cents worth. Ya'll have at it. :D

[preservator]

Hobby hot melt is PVA or EVA and has a lower melting point than electrical grade hot melt
which is polyethylene. Marvelseal is heatsealable
because the polyethylene on the inside has a lower
melting point than the Nylon on the outside, so
it is likely that hotmelt should work. Susan,
do you know what is in the E6000 you mentioned
or who the maker is? Any glue that sticks to most
anything is worth looking into, even if it is not
completely wholesome from a preservation point of
view.

Hugh

[fttom]

Hugh, let me get back to you. I've know that I've got a tube around here somewhere, but I've got to find it.

[fttom]

Hugh, it is manufactured by Eclectic Products, and contains perchloroethlen. I had to call a friend to get that info. Can't find my tube. Next trip to the craft store, I'll get another tube and send better info. That's all I've got, though, for right now.

[preservator]

Thanks, Susan. I will check around and see what
I can find out.

Hugh

[Jim Miller]

Dear Golf Ball Framers:

The Tulle Sucker-Wrapper mount is our current favorite. It's fast, clean, and holds up well.

I got a 10-ft. length of white 3" PVC drain pipe from home Depot and cut it into 1-3/4" slices (fits perfectly into our stock shadowbox for these things).

We cut circlular "donuts" of black matboard, with a 1" diameter hole for the ball nest, which are hot-melt glued into one end of a PVC cylinder.

When it's ball-mounting time, we just wrap the tulle, stick it thru the nest hole and hotmelt it to the back of the donut. Hotmelt works best because it solidifies quickly, while we pull the tulle tight all around the ball.

The PVC/donut/ball assembly is then hotmelt glued to the back of a 2-7/8" hole in the mat, so it looks like a ball "in the hole."

[Curly Grumble]

Originally posted by Jim Miller:

I got a 10-ft. length of white 3" PVC drain pipe from home Depot and cut it into 1-3/4" slices (fits perfectly into our stock shadowbox for these things).

We cut circlular "donuts" of black matboard, with a 1" diameter hole for the ball nest, which are hot-melt glued into one end of a PVC cylinder.

When it's ball-mounting time, we just wrap the tulle, stick it thru the nest hole and hotmelt it to the back of the donut. Hotmelt works best because it solidifies quickly, while we pull the tulle tight all around the ball.

The PVC/donut/ball assembly is then hotmelt glued to the back of a 2-7/8" hole in the mat, so it looks like a ball "in the hole."Jim, although I don't agree with the "look" of tulle, for authenticity your pipe is too small.

"HOLE

The "hole" shall be 4 ¼ inches (108 mm) in diameter and at least 4 inches (100 mm) deep (most are 6" deep)."

You can get away with it being shallower but I don't think the proportions will look right to a golfer.

Originally posted by Rebecca:


Perhaps it's a mindset, but I don't understand why one would use a destructive method of display and framing when a non-destructive method is so easily available.

Think of memorabilia framing as mini-museum displays for private owners. I don't think they're drilling too many holes through golf balls at Sport Halls of Fame. The artifact is important to the owner and they are relying on the framer for professional, non-destructive display techniques.

Rebecca.Sorry Rebecca, But I don't think Ron's display is going in any "Sport Halls of Fame".(Sorry, Ron.) We're talking about some knucklehead that got lucky and put a couple of balls in the hole. We're not talking about a collectible that will increase in value. We are talking about a display that this guy is going to brag about for years to come and I don't think he's gonna like some thin fabric over the ball. As near as I can describe it, It looks like a "haze" over the ball. By the way, it's not a hole "through" the golf ball it's a tiny hole on the backside of the ball, that no one will ever see. Also, if you you the clear silicone like I also mentioned, it peals off without a trace. Hardly "destructive". The cover of 99% of the golf balls out there are a material called "surlyn" that is impervious to everything.

[Hobbes03]

Originally posted by Curly Grumble:
The cover of 99% of the golf balls out there are a material called "surlyn" that is impervious to everything.Sorry Curly, but my 3 iron has put many "smiles" on many golf balls. Golf balls are not impervious to the average hacker :D . Make that below average hacker.

-Mike.

[Rebecca]

Well Curly, as I said, it's a different way of looking at things. A philosophical difference. No, Ron's client's golfball isn't going into a Professional Sports Hall of Fame, but I would think of the frame job as a Personal Sports Hall of Frame. It's the same motivation behind someone preserving, say, their father's birth certificate. You wouldn't scotch tape the birth certificate into it's mat because there were millions printed and it only has personal value.

I'm thinking of the ball as a personal artifact, and you're thinking of it as a designer. They don't have to be mutually exclusive. I'm not saying tulle is the only answer, just that there has to be a better solution than drilling a hole in it.

Rebecca

[Ron Eggers]

So I guess we're all okay with the cable ties for the stainless steel shovel? 'Cause that's going together tonight before I kick back with a brandy Manhattan and put my feet up.

As for the golf balls, there isn't much room for debate. The customer - the one paying the bill - came to me 'cause she wants the most non-invasive procedure possible. The B framers down the street were smart enough to realize they couldn't do it and honest enough to suggest that I probably could.

If her husband opens the frames on Xmas day and says, "****! The framing freak put that sissy tulle stuff on my golf balls" he can bring them in after New Years and ask me to put a lag bolt through 'em. (I could do that 'cause the tulle will be removeable.)

[fttom]

Ron, Go with the cable ties. And get a good night's sleep. You sound like you need it. Tomorrow's another day. ;)

[fttom]

Actually, I just remembered hearing Vivian talking about this very thing here at a seminar at Southern Moulding sometime last year. They had a shovel that was in a shadowbox, and you couldn't see how it was mounted. Viv stated that she really hated to see ones like that, that looked like they were held up by magic. I guess your cable ties qualifies as not being "magic". Go for it! :D

[Jim Miller]

Curly:

Authenticity isn't important in these things, IMHO. But appearance is, and a 4-1/4" hole in a frame 18" square looks too big to the casual viewer.

...I don't think he's gonna like some thin fabric over the ball. As near as I can describe it, It looks like a "haze" over the ball...

We're not talking about the same fabric, then. The white tulle I use is completely invisible from a distance of three feet. Hundreds of customers who have looked at the samples on my wall have said so. It's nothing special -- I often buy it from JoAnn, when I stop in to meet their new framers each month.

[/B]...if you you the clear silicone like I also mentioned, it peals off without a trace. Hardly "destructive". The cover of 99% of the golf balls out there are a material called "surlyn" that is impervious to everything.[/B]

I agree Surlyn is really tough stuff; not much will affect it. Indeed, if you can peel off that silicone, how could it hold under any kind of stress?

In the early years of mounting golf balls, we tested several kinds of mounts by shipping them UPS. Every glue failed and every screw pulled out of either the ball or the backer during the round trip. The balls wrapped in tulle arrived OK every time.

Another method that travels well is to nest the ball in a 1" hole and let the glass hold it in place by resting gently on it. However, that method abrades the ball's markings over time -- something we didn't realize until a few years later.

Our main concern isn't to preserve the ball forever. Rather, we want it to look good for a long time. If it comes apart after a UPS trip or cross-country move -- which is true of glues and screws -- then it's not good enough.

[Ron Eggers]

The technical assistance number for Eclectic Products, Inc. - the maker of E-6000 craft adhesive - is 800 767-4667. This stuff is supposed to work on virtually any surface, but is not recommended for use on any polystyrene, polyethylene or polypropylene plastics.

Looks like interesting stuff, but I think I'll stick with the hot glue for this project.

[Framerguy]

I made my first stop at a JoAnn's Fabrics shop this evening to buy some of that E-6000 glue and they were completely out of it!

It must be good enough for SOMEBODY to be buying alot of it.

They DID have some 7800 adhesive but the girl was so busy that I didn't bother to ask whether it was the second generation of 6000 or not.

They have some pretty cool stuff in JoAnn's though. I might go back if Kit ever turns loose her secret list of fabric goodies to us. tongue.gif

(It WAS Kit who said that somewhere else, wasn't it??) :confused:

Framerguy

[Ron Eggers]

The shovel is done. Now that I know what to do, I expect people will start bringing shovels in at a rate of several each week.

I covered 6mm Coroplast with black fabric (2nd trip to fabric store in 2 days,) punched some holes with my awl and threaded 4 strategically-placed black cable ties through the holes to secure the shovel. It took me a while to figure out that I could carve out a cavitiy in the back of the Coroplast for each cable tie to recess the fastener end. I filled each cavity with hot glue and fitted the frame with . . .

WallBuddies! :D

(I'm going to keep an assortment of cable ties on hand from now on.)

[jframe]

My head just snapped back like I had been hit in the jaw. I just started
reading this topic this morning and I am flabbergasted to hear some of you
not only disagree with Hugh, Rebecca and Jim, but go so far as to dispute
their advice. That pretty much makes me doubt anything that you
say is worth consideration.

But then I have to consider the possibility that you haven't been reading the Grumble and Hitchhikers for years, therefore haven't followed the the introduction of these materials into framing. So, I'll give you a break and give you time to catch up. If you do a search for tulle, stabilitex, cable ties, steel rods, coroplast, mylar etc. I'm sure you will learn about many new non invasive techniques that will make your object framing easier and healthier.

[Meghan MacMillan]

Slightly off topic:

In 19 years I have never, ever not once been asked to frame a golf ball. There are many, many country clubs near here, and I sell lots and lots of golf prints. Did you start with your own display first to inspire clients to bring them in?

[Ron Eggers]

Meghan, I've framed hockey pucks, baseballs, basketballs, footballs, gumballs, (no bowling balls,) but these were my first golf balls.

I'm considering a sign for the window:

Bring your balls in here for pain-free framing. I promise I'll treat 'em right!

[Ron Eggers]

I should mention too that a shadowbox with nothing but a golf ball in it would probably be pretty boring, even for the golfer (who is apparently not easily bored.) These two frames are going to have score cards, certificates, little blurbs from the local paper and some tees (for color.) In short, they are to be stuffed with more #### than a Christmas goose, thereby providing endless hours of interest and amusement for the lucky viewer.

[fttom]

Ron, "Himself the Elf" is home today with me, and you've just made our day. Thanks, and Have a Great Holiday! :D

[Curly Grumble]

Originally posted by Ron_Eggers:
...I've framed hockey pucks, baseballs, basketballs, footballs, gumballs, Ron, as another Grumbler might ask, how did you mount those items? "Inquiring minds want to know."

[JPete]

I didn't read this thoroughly but I don't believe my solution was mentioned. I had a photo to go with the golf ball. I suspended the golf ball with four golf tees. Worked like a charm. I built up layers of black foam board until it was deep enough for the ball not to touch the glass, I then pushed the tees into the foam on each side of my square hole, and they held the ball great, placed the circle cut of my top mat over it all. No tule and no harm to the gold ball.

[Emibub]

Ron, were you serious about using colorplast with your shovel? I have this blasted gun to do and i was going to get a piece of plywood cut for behind the matboard but I have this piece of colorplast and it would save me a trip. I have these nifty mounts that I am going to screw to the front and then I thought I could have some sort of shim for the screw behind the mat and colorplast. Just curious. I can't tell fact from fiction wading through some of this stuff here.

Otherwise what I gleen from here is to take "gobs" of silicone and mix in some E6000 and get a couple of nails and maybe some drywall screws. Which I am not above doing considering how late in the game she brought this gun to me in the first place.

[wpfay]

Kathy,
Don't forget bailing wire and bubble-gum...the direct ancestors of duct tape.

If you have thich enough coroplast or can laminate two sheets together with the flutes running 90 degrees from one another you can use this to back your project. You can use a washer on the back to make the mount more secure, and you can also fill the cell of the polyflute with hot glue where the stem from the mount penetrates. (No this is not like putting hot glue on your tulle).
With all that's happened to you and Ron in the last few posts, I'd be careful about over exerting your inuendo.

Cheers!

[Emibub]

Thanks Wally, you must be the only other Grumbler at work today. My colorplast is 4mm and I have room to double up on it. That way I can get it done today. I still have 30 pieces in various stages of production. If I can get the hard ones done today I can knock out the other 25 tomorrow. I knew Michael's high production would come in handy someday.

You are also right I am quite sure I have lost all my credibilty around here.(like I had any) This is the way I operate in high stress situations. This is actually how I used to lead the troops when I had a crew. Madcap motivation always beat shouting and crying in my opinion. Not everybody's cup of tea for sure but I did develpoe a certain amount of loyalty from the people who worked for me.

[Emibub]

Oh my goodness I just realized I changed my signature as a joke. I changed it last night hoping to get a response from a couple of goofballs this morning. I wasn't planning on posting anywhere.......my credibility continues to take a downhill spiral............I can't shake the "dancing baby" how on earth am I going to shake this one?

[Ron Eggers]

Hey, I'm at work - but this is the first I've logged on. I had 26 orders to complete today, and was on a roll until I ran into one of those glitches.

Yes, I was serious about Coroplast behind the shovel and I'm going to use it on the golf ball frames (when I get that far.) I'm using it any place it'll fit, but particularly on object boxes. I would also consider black cable ties - from any hardware store, building center or Radio Shack, to attach the gun if you're in a hurry.

My door is locked, but I've had two people tap on my door. The first was here to pick up an order and the second just came in to bring me a pot of coffee and a donut. God bless 'em both!

Good luck. Back to work now.

[Lois Bauby]

Sorry I have been seemingly gone for so long, I have been busy making these incredibly simple little acrylic GOLF BALL holders priced at only $6.50 each and shipping them all over the country to quickly answer the question,"What do you do with the hole-in-one ball?" Should any of you wish to see the solution. Call toll free (877) 422-7954 or write, E-mail: Lois@SuperiorAcrylic.com and I will send pictures.

Just one more way to handle the problem. Totally conservation, does NOT change appearance of ball.