My "M"'s Experience

[gemsmom]

I vowed (to myself, I never vebalized this), to ignor future Michael's threads because I had had enough of hearing about them. But today I found myself in a neighboring store, so I thought "what the heck, I'll check them out". I haven't been in one in quite a while as they moved out of my backyard a year and a half ago, and I just haven't needed what they sell.
I consider myself fairly open minded, so I went in with no pre-conceived ideas. The store was well-organized and clean. I used the rest-room, and it was very nice and clean. As I walked the perimeter, I passed the framing department just as the clerk was pricing a job. Lucky me. I really just wanted to see what their moulding selection looked like. The woman had pulled a print from their bins. I noticed all the prints had stickers on them saying 50% off framing if you buy this print, meaning the entire job, not just the frame. The price this woman was quoted was $410.00 (her jaw dropped). I thought well, that's a really good price, if she is getting 50% off that price. But I wasn't sure, so I stuck around. The print was fairly large, but the design was nothing special, by the way, just a traditional gold frame, off-white mat, and a fillet. She asked if she had to pay up front, and was told yes, that will be $410.00. Now my jaw dropped. There is no way that was an $800.00 frame job. I left shaking my head. What bothers me is, people think framing is expensive, and it can be. But here is someone thinking she is getting 50% off and still spending alot of money for a nothing-special frame job, and oh!, what would a small shop charge if Michael's charges this much? Well, the next time someone comes in and askes me how my prices compare to Michael's, and someone will, I'll have a story to tell them.

I noticed that their framer's had a bunch of "Certified Framer" certificates framed and hanging above the moulding. I know this is a Michael's certification, but are there any former Michael's employees who could tell me just exactly what they are tested on? I'm curious. I thought the certificates looked well-done, but they were over-framed for my taste.

Their moulding selection was ordinary to say the least. I was told Larson was no longer a supplier beacuse Michael's had their own line. Well, I saw several Larson profiles on the wall. Not what I would call their best one's, but offered, nonetheless.

I just thought I'd share my experience with you, if you care about them at all. I promise, I will never start another thread about Michael's.

[PurplePerson]

We have found that our prices are competetive with Michaels, even at 50% off, and that we can offer a real custom job rather than an ordinary framing with no flexibility in design. At Christmas time, they take no rush jobs or work extra hours so the Christmas elves can do their magic. They send those customers to us. Can you believe that? They verbally send them to us. We are the Chrismas elves and work all hours until the present are ready for the sleigh.

Now we can't beat Hobby Lobby's prices, but you get what you pay for.

[D_Derbonne]

I have always thought my prices were competitive with M's prices but recently had a customer bring in written quotes at her husband's insistence.
To my surprise the prices were really half price.

I know I am not in competition with them. I have had customers go to them and then come back to me to change what has been done.
The customer that brought the quotes was gathering the quotes for her employer. I told her I couldn't compete but also told her what to look out for. She came in 2 days later with her AA and BA degrees for me to frame. When I told her they would be ready in a week she was excited. When she came in today to pick them up she was thrilled with the results. SHe was going back to work to show them off.
My customers come to me because I offer a good selection, quality work and great customer service. Hopefully there are still enough people out there that believe that a bargain is not always a bargain. Some just have to learn the hard way.

[D_Derbonne]

By the way, the M's in my community just moved a few doors down from JoAnn's. It will be interesting to see how that works out. Let the BB's fight it out. :D

[Jerry Ervin]

Originally posted by Pamela DeSimone, CPF:
I was told Larson was no longer a supplier beacuse Michael's had their own line. Well, I saw several Larson profiles on the wall. They probably went to LJ's supplier and bought direct.

Jerry

[lyoncat]

Well, I never heard of Michale's before TG. Pam, your story is very interesting, and may come in handy in the future, as we have a M's opening nearby in Sept. And it is HUGE.
I am currently putting together a marketing campaign, and may address discount coupons in an article, as information to clients I already have.
We have a BOB's Discount Furniture store nearby, (he is big in CT), and his promos always talk about the truth of "free delivery"...
I think people respond very well to his appraoch to these "enticements" in advertising.
Maybe the same will hold true in a newsletter with established clients.

[ 07-18-2003, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: lyoncat ]

[lauralisa]

Hi Pamela,

I am one of the people who wish I could be in an 'ex-M frameshop manager support group' (with Emibub as faciliator preferably) but I'll keep my remarks as salient as possible... I'll really really really try I swear.!

My experience is three years old, but at that time, one of the FS manager's requirements was to make sure each of their employees was 'certified' within six weeks of hire.

Surprise internal 'audits' took place regularly; points were taken off for all kinds of infractions (razor blades not inbedded into styrofoam, protective eyeglasses not worn 100% of the time by anyone not wearing prescription eyeglasses, etc.) and non-certified employees were BIG points off. Big points off meant the store managers got into deep doo doo - and that meant they could become pests and ...
well.

The dilemma is obvious. (Well, at least I hope so... it was obvious to me...) most new employees were not thrilled with the idea of actually studying outside of the workplace, and there was hardly enough coverage in the shop at any one time to allow someone to sit down and "study" during their shift.....

What usually happened was this: the "fill in the circles test" was taken by the new employee with the training manual close by, or with someone with the answers close by. An experienced framer could read the training manual and take careful note of any "trick" questions regarding procedures or practices so as to make the 'correct' choice, if one was lucky enough to actually find an experienced framer to apply for a job there.

The information contained in the training manual is basically sound, and fundamentally consistent with conservation practices. *Please note: I am being very generous here.* It is - I dunno - probably less than ten percent of the information needed to pass a PPFA CPF exam... and an error rate of ten percent was a "passing" score back then.

All certified employees were then provided with the certificate, the same pre-joined moulding (I think LJ 287615?) with which to design, mat and WOW their fellow employees. One of my favorites had been inbedded with the little screws from Neilson tapped corner pieces - there was no such thing as 'overdone' - my own was a mosaic of multi-colored suede mat squares all spliced together and replete with v-grooves...... *sigh*

I believe LJ was a significant supplier of most of the tapes, mats, putty, and other various shop supplies; I remember hearing they were going to continue supplying the M stores with particular mouldings, but since so many savvy frame shop managers were ordering from LJ rather than wait several weeks for the "warehouse truck" to deliver critically needed items, they had a crack down on that.... I'm guessing they have acquired their own M-owned "United" clone/ business to fulfill those orders now.

Hope this answers some of your questions. And yes. Your observation about people spending hundreds of dollars willingly - not knowing just how much they are "saving" - is something that never fails to amaze me personally as well.

*disclaimer* There are excellent framers employed at M stores. I used to be one....

peace, lauralisa

[Bob Carter]

I think a point might be of interest on this thread.

Michael's DID sell the $400 order for an out of the rack poster and got paid upfront for it.

Sounds to me like they don't have a clue what they are doing. Boy, they could sure learn from us, right?

[gemsmom]

I think my biggest sale "out of the rack" for framing on a poster was over $900.00. And I didn't have to play games to make the sale. The poster was large, we canvas transferred it, put a liner on it, and a wide frame (just in case anyone was wondering why it was so much).
I think the reason so many framers get upset with "M's" is not the fact they are selling framing, but the way they are selling framing.


The point I was trying to make was that woman could have gone to any number of small shops and had the same job done for about the same amount of money. M's is giving the public the impression that they are cheaper, when perhaps they are not. I have no problem with people saving money. I like to save money. But I want it to be legitimate.

Laura Lisa and an un-named former employee who e-mailed me answered my question about the certification. Looks like they get enough help to make sure they pass. There is a world of difference between a PPFA certification and a M's certification, but how is a customer to know?

I am sure there are some very good, caring people working in the Michael's framing department. I don't think I have ever said anything against them. I know as well as anyone that it is very hard to find good, talented, help in this business. Saying that everyone that works there does lousy work puts the good in with the bad, and that isn't fair. Unfortunatly, the only work I, or other framers, probably see is the stuff people are not happy with. If everything they did was bad, they wouldn't have been around as long as they have.

[amanda]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pamela DeSimone, CPF:
[QB] I was told Larson was no longer a supplier beacuse Michael's had their own line. Well, I saw several Larson profiles on the wall.


I am an ex-M's framer, and I am wondering if you actually saw LJ labels on the samples? When I was there (3 yrs ago- 3 stores in 2 states) they had developed their own knock-offs of LJ frames. You really wouldn't know the difference until you actually held one. At the time I wondered how it was possible and was it legal, etc..

About the test-- it's multiple choice and VERY easy. I was given a "study guide" to read over the day before I took my test.

[JRB]

I have had customers tell me that my prices are "much higher" than Michaels. They have shown me quote printouts from them and I think I have to agree.

I have told people who want to bottom feed, to go to Michaels, the only place cheaper is Tijuana.

I don't have a clue about their quality or how long they will quarantee one of their framing jobs.

I do know that my products are all top of the line and I will stand behind them for life. ( mine ) I have no interest whatsoever of being competitive with Tijuana or Michaels.

I do not want to hire, at minimum wage, enough people to crank out discounted work.

I have myself and one employee, we take our time, we do a darn good job, and we both earn a good living from our craft.

John