Sanding corners

[B. Newman]

After reading a while back about different types of corner sanders, I wondered, do most of you sand the corners before you put them together just as a matter of course, or only if they need it?

I have had very little need to sand the corners of chops as they have most always fit very well. Today, I had 2 chops (same profile/same company) that was just a "hair" off. I have a belt sander with a disc on the side. I only needed to barely touch them to clean up the fit.

If you always do it, isn't it a pain to cut, (or receive chops) sand, and then assemble? Looks like if the cutting machine (whatever you use) was correct, there'd be no need to sand. It just seems redundant to me.

Maybe I've just been fortunate all these years....

Betty

[fttom]

Betty, I always order length, and cut my own. I can't tell you when is the last time that I've ever sanded prior to joining. I've got a good, sharp blade, and cut it correctly to start with. Therefore, I don't need to sand anything. :D

[Ron Eggers]

Betty, I bought the AMP sander and I don't rountinely sand my chops. Unfortunately, by the time I discover I should have sanded, it's too late, so I may re-evaluate my process.

I do sand the frames I cut myself. I'm happy for those who find this unnecessary, but my corners are not always perfect. Frankly, it's much easier to square the sander than the saw. It's also much easier to sand than to putty corners.

'Course, I use a Pro-Trim knife, too, so what do I know?

[PAMELA DESIMONE,CPF]

As a matter of practice, we sand everything. It takes less time than it would if we started to assemble something, only to find it "off".

[Hobbes03]

I always use my AMP sander. I'd rather take the time to do this rather than finding when I go to join that 4th corner that has a slight gap, that I should have. I paid for the sander, I'm going to use it.

-Mike.

[Al E]

There are those who are able to cut perfect corners using any type of equipment. I am not one of those people and the chops I get are off enough times that it is cost effective to sand everything right off the bat. The cost of the sander is high but, in the long run, worth every cent.

I use a method shown to me by Mark (M&M) at the NY show. He draws three lines on the mitre and sands until they disappear. I like this more than AMP's method. Thanks, Mark!

[B. Newman]

Originally posted by Al E:

I use a method shown to me by Mark (M&M) at the NY show. He draws three lines on the rabbet and sands until they disappear. I don't quite understand "three lines on the rabbet". Where? And why 3?

Betty

[pigeon]

Not having a miter sander, I use a large emory board, sold as "Mat Savers" by United.
I put the frame corners in the vise, and then backup on one leg, just far enough so the emory board fits in snug, and then give it a couple of strokes. If it need more sanding, just snug up the corner a little bit and sand a little more. With the corners aligned in the vise, the emory board remains flat against both sticks of moulding. This even works in the forth corner
You have to be careful not to damage the finish on the corner, but it works for me in most cases.

[Al E]

Betty,

Sorry, I meant three vertical lines drawn on the MITRE not the rabbet. I guess you can use more or less lines. Space them so that when they all disappear you know you have the 45 degrees. I use pencil because ink might soak in beyond the surface.

I edited the post. Thanks,

[Bork]

I agree with Susan.
If you keep your blades SHARP and keep your saw or chopper FINE TUNED, you don't need a sender. Remember that the thicker and wider the molding the more you would feel even small misalignments in your equipment. When I cut oversized molding (> 4" wide) I always check out the first cut placing two chops into the vise. Perfectly cut chops will be hold perfectly in the vise. If this is not the case, I check and align my chopper.

Mike & Pamela, you waste your time on sending EVERYTHING?! Instead of keeping your equipment tuned?
:confused:

[MarkG1]

Originally posted by PAMELA DESIMONE,CPF:
As a matter of practice, we sand everything. It takes less time than it would if we started to assemble something, only to find it "off".If I didn't have my sander, I don't even want to think about what I'd have to do without it.

It is a very valuable tool in my shop!

[B. Newman]

If you order chops with a standard 1/8" allowance, what happens when you sand all 8 ends?

Betty

[Ron Eggers]

Betty, the advantage of a hand-crank miter sander like the AMP is that is takes only a couple of turns to true-up the miter. You don't take off enough wood to change the length of the rail. That's the idea of putting the pencil lines on the miter first. You know when to stop.

I used a bench mounted disc sander once to clean-up a chopped metal frame (which must have been cut with a steak knife) and took off 1/4" before I realized it.

I keep my sander right next to my saw. It takes less than 30 seconds to sand all eight ends and I know the corners are going to be perfect. (I charge the customer an extra fifty cents for my time.)

[Art On Canvas]

Question: How do you clean off the sandpaper disc--With the big rubber erasure only?

[Ron Eggers]

That's what I use. It looks like one of those <strike>booger</strike> ATG lifters, only much bigger.

The disc doesn't have to be clean. It'll never look like new. You just need to get off the big chunks.

The sander came with two extra discs, but I'm still using the original one. I haven't used it with metal, but Johnny Wegeman suggested using a separate disc for sanding metal frames.

[fttom]

I still think that all of you sanders are wasting time and effort. I keep my saw sharp, and trued up, and never have to sand to make my corners meet. You will not find anyone who is any fussier than I am about corner gaps. I worked too long for a big box chain who would send chops with holes in the corners big enough that you could sling a cat through. I hate to putty, because The Queen of Klutz manages to get it all over herself, the worktable, the frame, you name it. Therefore, I cut my corners square to start with. You also have to be very careful not to let your moulding creep into the rotation of the saw blade or you will have a gap on the top of the moulding. It's just much easier for me to keep the blade sharp, clean, and true. Then, so are my corners. ;)

[Ron Eggers]

Susan, why do you insist on arguing this point? I believe you when you say your corners are good.

I get my chops from four different sources or I use a chopper or a saw. The only way I can be absolutely certain that I'll be happy with the corners all the time is by sanding. It's 30 seconds-worth of insurance. I waste a lot more time than that every time I respond to one of these posts.

I guess I sort of understand. I'm always surprized when I hear that someone is getting little hooks in their mats or they're having trouble cutting 8-ply boards. These things are easy for me. I have to work a little (not a lot) harder to get perfect frame corners.

[fttom]

Ron, didn't really realize that I was arguing about it. Just expressing an opinion. I thought that I was responding to Betty's original topic. I also think that a large part of the reason that I do my own cutting is my experience with chops where I used to work. I don't want to have to fiddle with them, so I cut my own. I have never had good luck with chops. I don't care where I've gotten them, they have never been right, so I just always do my own cutting, and I know, then, that it's right.

[Hobbes03]

Originally posted by Bork:
Mike & Pamela, you waste your time on sending EVERYTHING?! Instead of keeping your equipment tuned?
:confused: Right now, I order chop exclusively. Until such time as I decide it is wise for me to invest in a chopper or miter saw, then I will continue to sand everything that I order. I currently order chops from 4-5 different vendors. I don't want to assume all those chops will be perfect. For me, I don't see it as time wasted, but time invested in making sure that the end product is as good as it can be, but that's just my opinion.

-Mike

[jframe]

Betty,

In most cases you wiil be amazed to see how little you need to sand off in order to make it perfect. Less than a frog hair!

Ron,

I used the AMP on metal a couple of times with the regular disk, it did the job for me. I can't imagine changing that sandpaper disk just for another type frame. Once you change yours you'll know what I mean. tongue.gif

Susan,

We use a CTD double miter saw. It does a great job and it is very accurate. We cut quite a bit of wide moulding on it, the blade will not cut all the way through. You have to saw the remainder with a hand saw. Believe me, after I use a hand saw, it is no longer a perfect cut. The AMP does a great job of correcting the angle. Also, if the moulding is hard wood I sometimes have a problem holding the moulding in the saw correctly (and I'm no weakling) and the AMP is a must.

For cleaning the disk, I use the air blower thingy that is hooked up to the compressor. It is faster and better than the eraser method. It does get dust everywhere, but the sanding process does that anyway.

[MerpsMom]

Glad you brought that up. I'm on my second disc and am seeing it bugger up even though cleaning frequently. Am I paranoid? Doesn't seem to me to be as good as the "clean" disc, nor to do as good a job. Even used a wire brush. Maybe I'm nuts.

[MarkG1]

MerpsMom,
One thing to remember, when you change your sanding disc, Always clean the old adhesive residue off of the metal surface before applying the new disc. I use unseal. I also use compressed air to clean my disc most of the time. I only use that big eraser when I mix metals and woods on the same disc.

Also I think what was meant by changing the disc for metals was, when you do wood frames and then do a few metals, (I try to do my metals all at the same time, but don't always get to.) the metal frames will ware the sanding disc faster than the wood frames will. So what I do is use the farthest point outward on the disc for the metals and then use a piece of molding (1" wide I think) to shim the rest of the wood frames inward on the disc, until I change the disc. If that makes any sense. This does not cause me problems very often.

I still think it is a great piece of equipment and would recommend it to anyone.

[gemsmom]

bork, yes, I sand everything. Well, I don't, my employee does. I don't "do" length anymore, and the only chop company to supply me with perfect chops is Picture Woods. So, the time I'm not spending pulling, checking, sizing, cutting, inventorying, and replacing moulding to it's bin plus fiddling with the equipment is spent sanding a few corners. Sounds to me like I am saving some time.