Customers from ****

[cody]

Several wks. ago young lady? brings in 2 -8 x l0 b/w photos to be framed like another one she has. Top mount on 4 ply rag, two mats, metal frame. We had to order sample to match frame as not one we carried. Her other pic. framed 5 yrs. ago. Sample came in not exactly same color (imagine that) but so close who would know the difference. We picked out mats to match. Framed sample had plexi, but she didn't want expense so went with reg. glass on 2 we were to frame. OK, she comes in several more times before making decision, brings hubby etc. changes mats several times and talks to different sales people & always asks for discount. You'd think warning signs would have gone up by now. Finally places order,gripes about no discount (pics. $ll3. ea.)We complete order, THEY come in. I'm not there (at hospital with husband) manager/daughter calls me & says we put a slightly different color mat on. They want both pictures free b/c we made a mistake. They can accept the color difference if they get them free. I suggest they get new pics and we will redo correctly. (We did make a mistake.) Said they could live with difference if discounted. OK. take off $48 for four mats. No they would come back to see me. Came back today, said $48 not good enough. Would take pics as were for the $l20 dep. they left. They have negs. for pics. I said I would get new pics for them at photo lab in our shopping center and redo framing. No, they had been there and didn't like their work.
My suggestions,1. new photos, redo work 2. Take off $48 for mats plus the $20 they paid for photos and they walk with pictures for $l40. (Orig. order $226.) 3. I take pics apart, cut borders off photos, return deposit. At the last one she freaks as I start to take pics out of bag. He argues more, none of the above suites him, but again comes off with some ridiculos solution. I try to remain quite and finially he says he doesn't want to be combative (too late). He will take pics. with $48 off for mats & $20 off for what he paid for photos. Things cool off, I also offer to redo pictures at a later date No chg.) if they decide to bring in new photos. End of story you hope. NOT. They return at 4:30 she is screaming she cannot stand they way the photos are mounted & it is not acceptable. New twist. Will take their $l40, don't want photos back. I get refund check for $l40. while I'm writing it, employee comes back and says they want $20 for photos. Ok give them the check and $20 from reg. Their pics are up on my wall for sale and they will be refused service if they ever step foot in my store again. Thanks for letting me vent.Visit my store anytime and see Cody screwed to the wall. LOL

[framer]

I'm lost.

[cody]

Basically, we made a mistake by putting on a softer white mat than the one that we were matching and therefore customer thought he should get whole framing job free. Even after we offered to redo with a closer matched mat if he would bring in new photos, we couldn't make him happy. Photos were top mounted to 4 ply rag with a quarter inch showing then 4 ply rag mat around that. White on white I guess you would say. Nothing I offered him was acceptable.

[LBFOOTE]

Cody, I think I recognize that couple! They used to come to our shop! First the husband, then the next day, the wife to change the order, then the third day they both showed up to change the order....this went on even after all the work was done with the same dickering about prices that you experienced. After several go-arounds with them, I decided enough is enough. When the wife came to pick up their frame jobs, I told her (in very quiet tones) that they should take any future frame jobs to another framer since they are never satisfied with our work and it is not profitable for us to have to redo each job several times. Her chin dropped. She said nothing. She took her frame job, walked out the door and has not come back since.

Sometimes, the customer is NOT right....and needs to be so informed. Nicely, of course.


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LBFOOTE

[Mandalyn]

I've heard of scams before in order to get large amounts of money, cars, etc. but free framing jobs? Thats a new one! I think I would post a sign on my door...If your name is _____________(name of that customer) we are closed!

[Marc Lzier]

Maybe I'm missing somthing here, but tell me again why you couldn't just give them back their deposit and the pix?

Even steven?

Why are you going into negative dollars?

Or did you damge (mount) the pix as part of the order?

When you say "cut of borders", do you mean the mat? or the actual pix?

As framer said: I'm lost.

marc
And what are the pix of (general description)?

[cody]

Entire order was $226 with a $l20 deposit. Photos were black/white and were top mounted to 4 ply rag with same 4 ply mat around that.I needed new photo to remount to new mat color. Old photos were drymounted & looked fine, but they were willing to accept the entire framing even though we made a mistake on mat colors if we returned their deposit, making the order free. I wanted to make them happy by redoing the job with new photos and was willing to pay for the new photos. But they didn't want to do that. Just wanted their deposit back and take the two framed pictures free. I really don't think the mat color was the major issue, just wanted free framing, otherwise why not accept my offer to redo properly. I'm telling you, hanging on the wall, the mats we used and the mats in her already framed picture would have worked unless you got up close. You know how many different shades of white there are. But that's not the point, I believe in quality and I wanted to make it right for them. My last alternative was to take the framing apart, cut the rag mat from around the pictures and return them to customer and give them deposit back. I keep the rest. Early on, when they said they maybe might be able to live with the mat color difference for a discount, thats when I offered $24 off each picture for the mats. ($48) When they came back later that day & said they couldn't live with the mounting, I think it was another way to get entire package free. First wanted to know what I could do again price wise, then said they just wanted deposit back plus the $20. they had left earlier (the $20 was the balance left on order after $l20 deposit, $48 for mats and $20 for photos was taken off orig. price. I know it's confusing, was there. They only paid the $l20 & $20 in real money thus the check for $l40. Then I threw in the $20 to cover the cost of their pictures. I have never had a situation like this. I want my customer to be happy and will do almost anything to have a satisfied customer. But every once in a while you get one from ****

[Susan May]

LBFOOTE- You beat me to the punch! Though I think we all have had "that" couple in our store.
You know the type:
"You tell me, your the EXPERT."
"I'm color blind, you pick. I would like to look at brighter reds." (If she's color blind, why would she know what color to look at?)
"My husband/wife has no taste... Hunny? What do you think?"

My only question, how do you keep a straight face through all this?

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Sue May :)
"Everyone is born right-handed, only the greatest can over come it!"

[Magaret]

Cody,
Is it possible you used the correct white and the green tint from the glass made it look different?

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[Marc Lzier]

If you get this next time (from different folks, of course). I had some customers I was matching 3 new items to a 4th one we had done earlier. I had the data in the computer, but I told them to bring in the first and leave it I could be absolutly sure they matched. I put a new mat (C1138 white) and glass on the old one, and, no fool'n, they matched.

Why leave things to chance.

When they came in the did say mat color looked a bit different between the new and the old. I assured them that was an impossiblilty, and a poll of several other customers in the store told them they were the same.

[MerpsMom]

Said it before and will say it again: I hate CHEEP; don't mind thrifty and frugal, HATE cheep! Scotch, pennywise, all okay. Cheapskates like cody's customers are cheats, and should be strung up, run off, and made to feel like the lowlifes they are. So there.

I know, I know: you can't always do it; but I'd have to be needing money for my kid's operation before I'd deal with people like that again.

[cody]

Margaret, no I honestly think we put on the wrong color, however slight it was. They picked out several mat boards over a period of 4 visits before leaving the order. I picked the first board and it was a perfect match, but then the changes came. I was not in shop when it was being put together or maybe I would have caught it.

[cody]

I honestly told my employees that really we would not take another framing order from them though I doubt they will ever come back. My daughters solution if they do, ask them if they have ever been refused service in a store before and if they say no, we say "Well you have been now!"

[ArtLady]

I have a story.

One of my clients borrowed framed artwork from me on approval twice over holidays. Well we got the message and determined she was decorating her house temporarily and returning the artwork. Then I learn she has done this to every gallery in town.

Not to be detered the third time she used a decorator to do the deed. I was furious and the decorator felt used.



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Timberwoman
AL
I cut the mat, I pet the =^..^= cat.

[cody]

Artlady, if your cat is not an "attack cat", I'll loan you my chow for the next time she comes in. How do people live with themselves pulling this stuff?

[Susan May]

ArtLady - You should have asked for payment for the time your sample was out of the store. That way you get payment, and she gets a temporary "Gallery" in her home. It may not be the same amount of money as framing, but if she borrows artwork often enough, you might make a profit. Also keep in mind, she might tell her friends where she gets her artwork. (Good advertising) http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif

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Sue May :)
"Everyone is born right-handed, only the greatest can over come it!"

[MerpsMom]

That woman who borrowed AL's artwork for the holidays used to live in KC. She'd go to the furniture department of a large local store which had an extremely liberal return policy. She'd "buy" lamps, tables, chairs, etc., then return them about January 10th. Not just once, but three years in a row. What's that old saying? "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." What are you the third time? Answer: out of business, and the store that bought them won't let you out the door without a lock of hair from your firstborn as a deposit. http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif

[ArtLady]

I just sold some artwork to an attorney. He wanted to live with the piece for a couple of days. I jokingly asked him if he was having a party over the weekend. After we laughed about it, I told him about this customer. He knows of a case where a woman did that with a jewelry store and was arrested and conficted of a chargeable offense. I believe it was fraud!!!

Perhaps, the cat can stay at bey and I could use the police instead. Wouldn't that be a hoot!!!

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Timberwoman
AL
I cut the mat, I pet the =^..^= cat.

[ArtLady]

As a foot note many of her friends are clients of mine. While it would not be PC to complain and mention names to them they certainly fill me in and she is not fooling anyone. These are just the people she is trying to impress!!

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Timberwoman
AL
I cut the mat, I pet the =^..^= cat.

[This message has been edited by ArtLady (edited August 24, 2000).]

[TADPORTER]

Hmmmm...
This could be something. How about renting artwork for parties or whatever. $50 per night per piece, $30 delivery fee and $15 per piece to hang. $45/hour consulting fee to educate customer so they can act like they know about the artwork and artist. You just may see Tadporters on the NYSE soon.

[ArtLady]

I get asked to rent and lease frequently. Insurance, damage and theft scare the beegeebees out of me. Lets not forget the carrying charges. You have to purchase and frame the inventory.

Restaurants are always haranging me for artwork claiming they will sell it. Remember people sell artwork. Artwork does not sell itself.

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Timberwoman
AL
I cut the mat, I pet the =^..^= cat.

[This message has been edited by ArtLady (edited August 24, 2000).]

[cutting edge]

I don't know if this is true elsewhere, but our Public Library has an art collection and you can rent individual pieces by the month. It generates a small(microscopic) income for the library, and is good publicity for any local artists whose work is chosen for the collection. If customers trying to "rent" pictures from you is really a problem, you might find out if such a program exists at your library. If not, you could donate some artwork and start the program yourself. Think of the great publicity that would be...

[Scarfinger]

Framed artwork taken on approval from our shop must be paid in full by credit card, no cheques, and refunds are given only if returned by noon the next day. Any damage is deducted from the refund. This policy is made very clear to the customer. We only allow approvals on week nights and never over weekends or holidays. About 10 years ago we got tired of cleaning beer and champagne off the glass and frames.
This policy is not used with well known customers that we are familiar with and trust.

[Greg Gomon]

Love this topic! I learned alot.
Thanks everyone!

[po' framer]

You're right, Greg; this is a good one. I read and re-read Marc's to be sure I understood what he was doing and have to say that was really quite the idea to ensure that something didn't go wrong. I'm sure you could catch lots of flak about economics, but the fact of the matter was that for a little extra something you had a guaranteed match. I'll remember that one

Scarfinger said something that reminds me why I hated hawg-laws in the corporate world; there was absolutely no room left for individual judgment which could make the difference in customer service. Busting store policy for customers you know and trust is a great idea, as well. People in the shop need to be allowed to be able to make judgments about these kinds of things. Everybody benefits when they're able to exercise some judgment.

'nuff pontificated.. it brings back bad memories and gives me a jjjjjjjjerk reflex