Fight !!!!!!

[framer]

Now that I got your attention.

1. Do you feel as an employer that your employees are on vacation when they go to the restroom.

2. Should you be able to deduct vacation time for time spent in the restroom.

This could be a truly worthless topic but I read the month old Sunday Comics with this subject in it.

Maybe you could sell porcelin cruises to your employees to recover some costs!

[OregonJay]

Framer: I know what you mean. My employees spend an inordinate amount of time in the restroom. Perhaps I should not have installed a TV in there!

Just kiddin' http://lwfa.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif

OJay

[gentlebreeze]

Framer, If it weren't for one of our employees I'd think you were being a little picky but I do know exactly what you mean. This lady refuses to use our own washroom in the shop and insists on using the public one in the mall area. Each visit takes her 15 minutes and lately I've been keeping an eye on her and she's taking these breaks about every 90 mins. I did ask why she doesn't use our washroom and she says she enjoys the break of going into the mall. I'm sure she does!!! Interesting thing here is that she is our least productive employee and whenever there is any kind of dispute between the other employees her name is always mentioned. It seems a little absurd to tell her she can't use the public washrooms and she is constantly checking up on what her worker rights are with the government. It's just a guess but I'm thinking they would tell her she can use the washroom of her choice. Does anyone else ever feel like a nursery school school teacher when they are dealing with staff? I guess I'm lucky though because everyone else is a good worker and pleasant person at our shop.

[JOHNG]

GentleBreeze this women spends 15 min in the bathroom every 90 min. that means she is in the bathroom 1 hourper every 8 hour work day and you are paying her for it. Dont let her scare you with all the garbage about what her rights are. In N.J. where I am from the law states that I am required to give an employ two 15 min breaks and one 1/2 hour lunch break per day and I dont have to pay them for that. You should tell this women that she can use the bathroom all she wants but she has to punch out everytime she stops working to go to the restroom. You can never lose that fight she has her rights but since it is your money she is wasting then you have your rights as an employer. You dont have to pay her to use the rest room..
If you are looking to get rid of her then give her all the lowsy jobs and climb on her back all of the time. This will make her quit or straighten her out. Never fire someone always make them quit. It is not nice to do but it can save you a lot of legal hassles with lousy ex employees, and you wont have to pay unemployment when they go and collect.

[Grey Raven]

Any employees out there that feel like their employer is on vacation every day? Come in late, long "coffee breaks", 2 hour "lunches", then leave early to play tennis... they actualy work about 20 minutes a day, but they have quick bathroom breaks!! What goes 'round, comes 'round.

[framer]

Yaaaaa......

Give them somemore.............

You go Gary Raven.........


Yaaaaaaaaa

[gentlebreeze]

GrayRaven.....perhaps I'm missing something but in the issues you mentioned I see absolutely no reason why an employer has to answer to an employee on those issues should they choose to do the things you mentioned. Bottom line.....the employeer carries the responsibility...pros and cons.

[JOHNG]

Gray Raven whats the deal your profile says you are an owner did you lie are you really a measly little *****ant employee just kidding but what is the deal? If you were a business owner and you had a business going that let you do what ever you wanted wouldn't you. That is everyones dream.

[Grey Raven]

1) framer knows what I am talking about
2) gentle does not
3) JOHNG is thinking about it. Is it so far out that an owner might have such an opinion?
4) OregonJay is waiting for this to come out on video, so he can watch it in the bathroom. ORJay, you are a kick in the pants!

[This message has been edited by Grey Raven.]

[gentlebreeze]

Yish!!! I get it....a guessing game!

[Grey Raven]

gentle... I do not hold that all employees are "perfect", not hardly, but you said it yourself, "the bottom line... the employeer carries the responsibility... pros and cons." Exercise your responsibilty as regards your "porcelain problem". Dealing with employees in a posative manner is no different than dealing with the UPS agent in a posative manner. Give it and you might get it, don't and you won't.

[johnw]

The problem of overactive restroom users can and should be solved before the individual is hired. A written set of company policies, signed by the new employee, should define when and where an employee should get their breaks while on company time. It should also specify that breaks, other than those allowed, will be deducted from the time card. And that excessive abuse of the system can result in termination. (in a mall operation, you can specify that the shop facilities will be used with no time penalty, however, any outside use will cause time to be deducted)(of course you will have to maintain a clean and sanitized facility) A exemption clause for medical emergencies or doctor excusals needs to be included.

Don't think that because you are a small shop with only one or two employees that you don't need these written policies. YOU DO! Go the the SBA for an example. These written policies can save you many headaches, allow you to terminate a poor performing employee, handle such things as harrasment and other legal entanglements. The hiring of anybody without first having these written policies is inviting danger - especially from an employee who constantly underperforms and "knows" her rights, and "pushes" the your patience by going on relief breaks more frequently and for longer periods.

JohnG - if you select one person for all the ***t jobs, you are setting yourself up for a nice legal battle. Instead, counsel the employee in private and write up the counselling session with the employees initial. After several of these sessions for legitimate reasons, the employee will recognize one of two courses to go - Shape up or Ship out.

signing off my soapbox

[Kel]

Gentlebreeze I'm all for making the woman clock out. If she leaves the store she's taking a brake. Be careful, she may decide to take 30 min bathroom brakes in the shop. I wouldn't pay for her to play.

Grey Raven the benefits of the employeer is paying the rent, supplies and employees.
The employee gets paid if the boss is there or not. If the employee resents the boss not being there then the employee should find a new job with a boss who will baby set the employee.

[DPattullo]

Grey Raven, are you implying that all of these employers take to many breaks and that's why their employees feel they have the right to as well? So what kind of an employer are you?

[Le]

I found that when I was an employee I took too many bathroom breaks. Now that I am working for myself I don't have that problem. I think my boss was full of *****and I was trying to compensate.

[OregonJay]

framer: GOOD topic. Interesting way to get it started ... but good topic. Just to set the record straight: I do NOT have a TV in the bathroom.

gb (may I, gentlebreeze?): you have a problem. On one hand it seems reasonable that someone should be able to go to the bathroom whenever they need to. I know some folks who have special problems and they have to 'go' a lot. On the other hand, if this gal is taking advantage of a 'good thing' and really does NOT have a bladder problem, you need to deal with it. Does she know you are aware of her behaviour? What does she say? What is her reason for not wanting to use the shop's bathroom? If you determine that she is taking (and will probably continue to take) advantage of you, thinking you can do nothing ... I'd probably change the workflow level so that I no longer had need for her services. It's sorta tricky, but I'd bet she'll find another job and not need unemployment insurance very long.

Gray Raven: welcome aboard! I don't know you very well yet but I'd like to get to know you better. The information I see for your profile has been corrupted, I think. I can't really tell where you are from. Doesn't matter much, just sorta curious.

OJay

[This message has been edited by OregonJay.]

[gentlebreeze]

Thank you all for your input and suggestions! I agree with each of you who said that this employees behaviour should not be tolerated. She doesn't work for me tho. Six years ago my long time partner became very ill and we decided to sell our Gallery/Frame Shop. Three years ago I took a job managing the framing deptartment of a Framing and Art Supply shop. I guess old habits and attiudes of being an owner for so long die hard and that is why I take the approaches that I do as an employee. (my boss thinks this is great!!)This lady on the porcelain cruise works for the owner in the art supply area and has been there for going on seven years. I've mentioned to him on numerous occasions that her attitude stinks and his reply is always the same....says she gets "moody" when questioned!! I once pointed out that if I were to get "moody" my work load could change dramatically. What can I say? I love my job...the three people who work for me are great in all respects and I don't have much to do with this lady I was posting about. If my employeer chooses to let her behaviour continue......as I said the responsibility is his. http://lwfa.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif

[tdubb]

yes, you got my attention...

and I believe I have the solution. You see, it's all about having an efficient operation. If a person wants/needs to go to the restroom on a regular basis, no problem! Just simply install a vertical cutter to the right of the toilet, a joiner to the left and put a mounting press right in front. Then your employees can set grumpy the mudfish free all day long, and you still will get a solid day's work out of 'em!!!

my roommate just said he can't believe I'm writing about grumpy... sorry but I had to prove the point... hehe...

[ArtLady]

And what about employees who first act of the day is to visit the rest room? We had an employee at one time who spent the first 15 minutes of every day in the rest room. It almost seemed as if they pushed every thing they could into their workday. Even a few things that should have been taken care of at home.

------------------
Timberwoman
AL
I cut the mat, I pet the =^..^= cat.
Dahl Fine Art & Frame Design (http://www.DahlFineArt.com)
Shapahl Fine Art (http://www.Shapahl.com)

[RonEggers]

Looks like I'm not the only one who's been wading through the archives looking for classic wisdom. Not sure if you found it in this thread, though. Lots of good stuff back there, starting about May 3, 1998. Among my many regrets in life is this one: I wish I'd known about The Grumble earlier - like before I bought a Mat Maestro. But thanks, framer - better late than never!

[tgfu408]

Here's what y'all do to avoid this:

1) (Except for Jerry and Betty who're already here)--Move your store to Tn or KY

2) INstall outhouse

3) do not supply running water

4) Make them go out there.

------------------
Michael LeCompte CPF

[framechick]

If your bathroom traveller is working less than others they will start to resent her. I don't know the law in this state but I' pretty sure if I was being shown around on my first day and was told you may take two breaks and those are the only times you are permitted to use the rest room I'd hand back my apron and my parking pass and not return. That is not to say I think you ought to let the situation go unchecked. My suggestion is that in speaking about it don't mention the bathroom at all. Just say she is spending too much time out of the shop. If you decide to make her clock out you have to make everyone clock out.


I had to deal with a guy who, after I explained he was using the phone too much, got himself a cell phone. I had to go back and explain that the tied up line was really only part of the problem. He spent a lot of time in the loo as well, now that I think about it. He was fired because we needed him to finish 12 jobs a day to stay on schedule and 8 was the most he ever did, and that was a rarity.

I understand the rationale behind forcing an employee to quit but I disagree wholeheartedly. If she checks on her rights with the state labor board you've got yourself a classic Norma Rae type. She'll hang on and on and any changes that make her work day less enjoyable will become her amunition in her wrongful termination suit (not saying that it's founded, just that she'll sue. Might make up some discrimination or unhealthful work environment charges to go along)

Do you have a clearly outlined performance review program?

[lise]

My partner and I will rejoice the day that we can lounge around, take lots of holidays & come in late and trust that our employees are holding the fort and helping our business become prosperous.
As for the numerous bathroom breaks, sounds like a smoker me. When I was smoking, I needed my nicotine fix about every 90 minutes too! An addiction that interferes with your work sounds like grounds for dismissal.

------------------
Lisa Kozokowsky C.G.A.H.
Frameswest Inc.

[AnneL]

quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tgfu408:
Here's what y'all do to avoid this:

1) (Except for Jerry and Betty who're already here)--Move your store to Tn or KY

2) INstall outhouse

3) do not supply running water

4) Make them go out there.

<HR>

That's exactly what I had for my first job after college. It was at a state park office in Wisconsin. The building was built in the 1930's and the "facilities" were and outhouse across the road. In the winter, my boss would let me drive the park ranger car down the road a mile to the shop to use the heated flusher there. Luxury!



------------------
Anne LeBouton

[JPete]

Bringing up old threads gets me excited to think some of those people are still responding, then I checked the dates...it was a fun time. Like most beginnings they are fun to look back on but life goes on!

John G. are you still around?

[Sandie]

*SIGH*

I own my own business and work by myself. Who should I complain to when I don't like the way I am behaving?. I consider myself lucky if I get a 2 second bathroom break without the UPS guy showing up unexpectedly!

Sandie in Maine

[lyoncat]

I hear u Sandy! Or when I finally get a chance to grab some lunch at 4:00 in the afternoon, and that hour long customer pops in, just trying to see how much it will cost to frame a 3x5 . LOL

[UzZx32QU]

I just saw a story on the news this morning that reminded me of this thread so I brought it back for new comments.

Have fun...

Do you see the story on NBC on the ultimate bathroom!!!

framer:faintthud:

[Framerguy]

Whew!! For a minute there I thought I fell into a time warp!!! I had to read over 3 years of posts before I came to any names that I recognized, Timberwoman and Ron's!!

Framer, ya oughta warn a person before you go diggin' in those old graves!!:faintthud:

[Ron Eggers]

When I worked alone, I got in the habit of taking a cordless phone into the restroom with me. (I actually carried it everywhere.)

Let me see how I can phrase this delicately. I was just finishing up one day when I got a call. I had to answer within a few rings or the machine would kick in.

It became apparent that it was going to be a long call. I was trying to figure out how to flush the toilet and wash my hands without alerting the caller that I was in the john.

Eventually, I remembered the mute button.

[Framerguy]

When I worked alone, I got in the habit of taking a cordless phone into the restroom with me. (I actually carried it everywhere.)

Let me see how I can phrase this delicately. I was just finishing up one day when I got a call. I had to answer within a few rings or the machine would kick in.

It became apparent that it was going to be a long call. I was trying to figure out how to flush the toilet and wash my hands without alerting the caller that I was in the john.

Eventually, I remembered the mute button.

I had that same problem at the Salem gallery, Ron.

I didn't think about the noise, only the task at hand.

I quickly yelled, "ROBBIE!! Get out of that toilet this instant!!!"

The customer was laughing so hard she barely heard the rushing water.

[Dermot.]

Now this is what I call a toilet phone

http://palmaddict.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/toilet_phone2_1.jpg

[Patrick Leeland]

If you are ever bored watch Cribs on MTV. Every star or sports person on that show has a phone next to the camode. I think that is odd and funny. You ever been in a rest room and here people talking on the phone? That is so foreign to me, is it really that important?

Soon there will be a market that is based aroung toilet phones. That there are baggies like condoms to put over your phone so it stays clean. Each time you come in you put one on for safety.

These people are odd.


PL

[Sherry Lee]

There's a healthy solution to your problem Framer! Supply snacks for your employees - ones that are high in FIBER!!...speeds up the 'process'!! And an added bonus, it lightens everyones attitude! :icon21:

[J Phipps TN]

When I first started reading this thread, I thought something was wrong with my computer because the names had no icons under them and I didn't recognize anybody.:popc:

That was weird! :nuts: Boy has the grumble changed, Frankly, I like the way it has evolved!:party:


I need to go looking through those old archives.I think I would enjoy reading about all the old grumblers and wondering where they have gone.

[Rick Granick]

Jennifer, I also noticed the lack of avatars and posting info in the left column, but it took me a little while to look at the dates before realizing what was going on. This thread began in 1998, then it looks to have been brought back in 2001, and now again.
Think it's time to call a plumber? It just won't stay flushed.
:p Rick

[Baer Charlton]

Rick, this just goes to show that concerns in business, just never go away.

Long breaks were a concern back in the 1800s as well. To long in the outhouse.... wandering around in the forest instead of plowing...;)