Examples of Work, and the presentation...

[KeepFraming]

I have two questions. The first is, does anyone have any suggestions on what would be a good set of examples of a framing stores work...just to start, do you think that having one example of a poster, one of a shadowbox, one of canvas, one of needlwork, would be okay in the store? The second, When you go to make a sales pitch to a corporate client (which I have never done) what would you suggest to bring with you (saying that you go to them not they come to you)...?
Thanks in advance for your help!

[mbshir]

We have 5 of the same pieces framed different ways. It's a small Monet, probably about 11 X 14. The first is framed in a plain metal frame, second with a two inch mat, the third with a double mat (wide), the fourth is done as as canvas transfer and the last with a fillet-5 inch mat and a big gold frame. People are amazed at the way framing can transform a piece. When you point them out, they're not sure at first that it's the small art. It helps people decide whether they want a small mat or a wide mat (about 95% go for the wide) and it has been great for upselling. Why go for the plain metal frame, when your art can look like THAT!

[mbshir]

should read the 'same art', not small art!

[FramerDave]

Two things: If you don't show it, you can't sell it. If you don't want to sell it, don't show it.
Decide what kind of work you want to do and show it. If you're great with needlework, show it. If you want to be know for your shadpwboxes, show them. In general, I'd say a minimun of: A print framed fabulously (yes, your $20 print can look that great too!) a work on canvas, a shadowbox, a piece of needleart something with stacked frames, and something with a lot of openings in the mat.
Now, unless you really want to sell 2 inch mats, frames with no mats and 1/2 inch mouldings, don't show them! That's why I personally don't like the "step display" showing the good-better-best treatment on the same piece of art. Inevitably you're going to get the people who point to option #1 on the wall and say they want it like that. It puts the idea into their heads that there are only 3 ways to frame it, whereas we know there are almost infinite ways for any piece of art, and of course we only want to sell the best!

[ArtLady]

You need to decide to whom you are marketing. If you look too upscale some may think you are too expensive. However, it is always a good idea to have something that demonstrates a suggestion you might make to the customer. I always become confused when I lend artwork for a homeshow because I forget I have loaned out my examples.

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Timberwoman
AL
I cut the mat, I pet the =^..^= cat.

[Frank]

If you only have room for a couple of pieces and are aiming your store at a mid to higher end market spend the money and hang the most expensive and best work that you can do. If your customers don't see that you can do higher end framing they won't order it from you. When I opened my store I had 2 other frame shops in town. One was a poster shop that did mostly metal frames and one was a higher end shop that did mostly fabic wraps with high end mouldings and such. I decided to aim my store at a middle market and framed my examples accordingly. I found out there is no middle market. If someone can afford the best they go to the best if not they just want it cheap and they go to the place that looks cheaper. When I upgraded the artwork and framing on my walls my average ticket price jumped by almost 30%. Several customers make the comment that they didn't know I could do that kind of work. They were bringing me posters and such but taking the limited editions and originals to the higher end store for framing. Now I tell framers to spend the big bucks and hang originals with top end framing on them, they will be your best advertising.

[ArtLady]

You sell what you have on the walls. If you put to die for can't live without framing on the walls, that is what they will want.


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Timberwoman
AL
I cut the mat, I pet the =^..^= cat.

[Bogframe]

If someone can tell me how to upload pictures to this board, I can put up a picture of my sample wall.

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Seth J. Bogdanove, CPF
21 years framing and still loving it

[KeepFraming]

To see how to add images to your message follow this hyperlink and scroll down till you see the section titled: "Adding Images"
http://www.thegrumble.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=ubb_code_page

P.S. Make sure there are no spaces between any symbols/letters.



[This message has been edited by KeepFraming (edited January 10, 2001).]

[ 02-26-2004, 06:19 PM: Message edited by: framer tg: ]

[Bogframe]

ok, here goes, just remember that I'm as low-tech as they come!
http://members.aol.com:/bogframe/myhomepage/bogshop.jpg
Remember the shop is only 12'X 16' and every inch of space counts. This is my sample wall, and if my digital camera were better, you'd see some nice examples of v-grooving on the purple mat (incidentally that holds my CPF!)

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Seth J. Bogdanove, CPF
21 years framing and still loving it

[This message has been edited by Bogframe (edited January 08, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Bogframe (edited January 08, 2001).]

[Framing Goddess]

Dang, that looks excellent! I am not a big fan of v-grooves, but I like what I can see of yours!
-FG

[Bogframe]

Thanks, Goddess, Praise from on high always makes my day...heck, I could be persuaded to take a closeup of one of them :)!

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Seth J. Bogdanove, CPF
21 years framing and still loving it

[This message has been edited by Bogframe (edited January 09, 2001).]

[Bogframe]

If y'all ask really nicely, I may post a few more pictures!
http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/mad.gif

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Seth J. Bogdanove, CPF
21 years framing and still loving it

[Kit aka emrr]

Twice a year we frame employee's "stuff". They get a $100.00 discount and the pieces hang in the shop for six months. I try to keep to a theme; last June we framed wedding pictures, ours, our children's, our grandparents. Right now the idea is 'other things you can frame besides pictures'. We have framed on display a christening dress, a purse, three whore house tokens, wrestling medals, a Civil War bayonet, and a dinosaur bone. The exhibit stays fresh because we have to keep changing it (people want their 'stuff' back) and it gives customers lots of ideas about how their pieces could be framed. If any employee has a child graduating from high school, we do up one of those photo, announcement, tassle combos for display. The point of all this rambling is: think about what your customers own that could be framed and inspire them to haul it into your shop. Kit

[Rick Granick]

Seth: I would LOVE to see more pictures of your work. Also please give more info about your "surface groove" technique. It's a knockout. Are you still planning a book?
By the way, how is the job search? Anyone in your area who has an opening would be a fool not to snatch you up immediately. (I guess Cincinnati would be a rough commute!)
Looking forward to some good pix and good news from you.
;) Rick

[Audrey]

Needlepoint is PERSONAL with me. *evil chuckle* I will take it if I have to, and charge outrageously for it, but I have never seen the art or the appeal of needlepoint and I REFUSE to have it anywhere near any wall of mine. http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif

Maybe it's the little old ladies who come in with it who cannot understand why we charge so much to stretch their crooked and badly trimmed little ducks, bunnies, and birth announcements, and proceed to yell at me about it. LOL

Does a piece of needlework on your wall, for those of you who have them, seem to attract more of the same? *Audrey runs in fear* And does anybody else find them as annoying as I do?

BTW, Bog, as a Texan it's hard for me to wrap my mind around running a shop that size...I say bravo. http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif Looks great. Is that a normal size for a small retail shop in Brooklyn, out of curiosity?

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I don't care what color your sofa is.

[Lance E]

Audrey,
Don't like needleart???
Sure lots is in need of better technique and taste, have you never seen Japanese embroidery, you can't help but love it.

[Susan May]

I'm with Lance on this one. I love the needlework. Most of them know how much work went in to the piece, and therefor are willing to protect their hard work. As for the fact that so many needlepoints are hard to pull tight, all you need to do is charge for the extra time blocking. While your at it, you might explane that if they were to keep their needlepoint on stretcher bars till you (the framer) have a chance to frame it, it might not need to be blocked. Therefore saving them money.
I think that stitcherys are bread and butter, when it comes to framing. they are the ones that want the special openings in their mats! Thank-you Stoney Creek (Cross stitch designer). (Bad mats on their samples, but in the photos you can't tell.)

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Sue May :)
"Everyone is born right-handed, only the greatest can over come it!"

[Scarfinger]

I'm in the middle of making a display of NeedleArt Framing right now. I went to ebay and bought a few finished pieces. We have Framed them very well in the style of Framing we want to sell. Fabric mats, filets, upper middle priced Frames. We do Frame little crooked bunnies that look great when finished. We also Frame some very highend original NeedleArt pieces. It's the fabricArt pieces in between these two we want to attract more of. And that's what our display is designed to do. There is a catalog type description of why we chose the Framing printed and hanging beside each one. These will display for about 6 months and then we will sell them. We are very good at Framing NeedleArt, we make money doing it, and we want all this business we can get.

One of our customers has done 4 Cross Stitch of Winnie the Poo which will be raffled to raise money for a community group. These are well done good size pieces. We will donate the Framing, display the pieces in our window, and sell tickets. The Framing will be deluxe. I'm cutting a mat for one in the shape of a Honey Pot! (Fletcher F-6100)

The community group will tell all to come and see our window. The window display will bring them in. The display inside will give Framing ideas. We will be busy doing NeedleArt Framing.

[Audrey]

Sue--

LOL I see that needleart has its diehard fans, eh? *grin* Perhaps this is due to the fact that you guys have the luxury of framing further north...I am down here in the Cheap and Bored Housewife capital of America. Granted--i adore Texas, I was born here--but in my experience, the people who do any kind of needlework here are the cheapest, most annoying women in the field. They do it because it's cheap, and easier than painting or drawing or any other art-form.

Case in point--last week a woman brought in a hideous needlepoint of a chicken, square, that she stuffed into a Framemica ready-made, which left inch margins on top and bottom, and three inch margins on left and right. She didn't want to pay for a mat opening, so she had us top-mount it. She didn't want glass or a stretch--too expensive--so we basically ATG'd it to the mat.

THAT is the sort of person who does needlepoint, at least in Texas. *sigh* And that is why I hate it. Perhaps it is thought of as a higher art form elsewhere....

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I don't care what color your sofa is.

[Scarfinger]

Audrey,
Have you searched San Antonio for NeedleWork guilds or clubs? Are there stores that sell stitchery supplies and patterns? If you find these you may find the customers you want. If you can't find these you may have found a great add on to your business.

[jframe]

Audrey,

Perhaps the serious needlework customers in your area take their needlework to a shop that has a reputation for fine framing. That is the type of shop that attracts those who do needlework. They are not about to leave their needlework that took them 25 to 100 hours (or more) to complete to a shop that uses sticky substance of any kind in direct contact with their work. They are very, very sensitive about the treatment of needlework. They communicate with each other, and they will spread the news about a great shop to go to, or a bad shop to go to.

Needlework should never be adhered to anything. Personally, I would refuse to to a job that compromised my standards as a framer. I'd rather see that customer walk out the door.

A display of framed needlework is a great sales tool. It often becomes an heirloom, which can lead to interest in framing other heirlooms. Be thankful that needleworkers are picky people, they help you raise your standards.

By the way, Scarfinger, how did you talk someone into doing 4 cross stitch pieces for you, It must have taken her forever. Your display sounds great.

[Scarfinger]

Actually my daughter whom is the main framer in our shop and the expert in NeedleArt Framing did them. She is also the director and teacher of Kinderdance at a local dance school which we have supported for 20 years. She has donated them to the parents auxiliary to raise funds for scholarships. We are proud to support this group as they have had tremendous success. Our store gives an annual scholarship to a dancer "with a future". Last year's winner is now with the Royal Winnipeg Ballet - world class. We also had word that a previous winner of our scholarship was chosen in the group of 25 dancers out of 800 that auditioned for Janet Jackson in L.A. yesterday. We hope she makes the final cut. But as I said above, I bought finished pieces on ebay for the rest of our display. They cost more than I hoped but they will be easy to sell afterwards to recover the cost.

[This message has been edited by Scarfinger (edited February 08, 2001).]

[Audrey]

Scarfinger--I appreciate your point and it is a good one, but I do not own my own shop, and I am not about to go soliciting business for my boss on off hours. LOL

As for Jframe, if I did own my own shop I would probably agree with you, although I don't appreciate the arrogance of your tone--you will never appreciate business as much as you do when it goes in your own pocket, of course--but I do not make the rules at the shop I work at, and my boss would have my hide for telling a customer to take their business elsewhere, REGARDLESS of what they request.

I have had customers request that their numbered artwork be trimmed to fit a ready-made frame, and of course if they were in MY shop, I would tell them it's against policy and ruins the artwork, etc., but it is not my job to decide these things when it is not my business to run.

And when a woman comes in demanding that we somehow frame her needlework without sewing, stretching, or otherwise doing anything that we would charge her labor for, I am not about to stretch/sew it anyway, for the "integrity of the needlepoint." We told the customer that we would use ATG, explained what that meant, and she signed off on it.

Her ignorance, her choice. Not mine.

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I don't care what color your sofa is.

[jframe]

I'm sorry if there was a tone of arrogance to my post, Audrey. Actually it is more a matter of experience. I've been framing for 24 years now, with 19 of those in shop ownership. The vast amount of change we have seen in the industry has given all framers the ability to do quality framing. Information abounds. Archival products cost only pennies more than standard supplies, and the bonus is that the framer can sleep at night knowing that his work is not going to self-destruct.

Keep Framing, this would be a good sign to put up with your framing display "We sleep at night!.....knowing we have used the finest quality materials and workmanship in YOUR framing!"

[Scarfinger]

Audrey,
Sounds like you and your boss are back in the thirties. Somehow there needs to be some joint effort at working together so you both advance. It's a little sad to see you stuck in this type of work environment with this type of attitude. My employees are proud of their jobs and their skills and often bring business from their afterwork hours. They don't have to work at this, it's just their pride showing that attracts customers.

[Kit aka emrr]

All right you guys. Stop that THIS MINUTE. Sound to me like Audrey is trying to do her best in what may be an unfortunate situation. Unca Boggy - this would be a really good place to insert some more of your wonderful pictures. Kit

[Scarfinger]

Sorry Kit, but in our shop we do care what color the customers sofa is.

[JPete]

Sorry Kit, I agree with SF. I also realize this is where we grumble but if one isn't happy where they work it shows everywhere.

Location, location, location is probably the 2nd most important thing in running a business. Attitude is probably number 1.

[Margaret]

I also agree with Scarfinger and JPete. You do have to care what color their sofa is, and attitude is number one.

I get the impression that Audrey is unhappy with her present employer but has adapted to their way of doing things.

This is unfortunate since she wants to own her own shop, but the present owner is the boss/teacher and she is learning from what sounds like a framer from the far past.

I can understand having to do as your employer says--or you lose your job; I worked for the former owner of my store for 7 months before I bought the store(1984) and she didn't have a mounting press. She used to mount her photos and prints in the oven with a warm glass 9x12 casserole dish. Then after she ruined the photo/print she would tell the customer some big fib, sometimes blaming it on "poor" help. She also stretched needlework with masking tape.

The first thing I bought when the store became mine, was a mounting press and quit using tape on needlework.

I have required any non-needleworker employee to do one small crosstitch project, daily during the last hour of the work day, so they would appreciate the hard long hours that are put into these pieces.

Audrey, you can't assume that all people in Texas are that cheap and art ignorant. It maybe that they are the clients your employer has targeted, and that is who you deal with daily. We all learn better ways in this forum--I know I do--and should you own your own shop someday, you will have to decide what kind of work you want leaving with your sticker on the back. And this will have a lot to do with the clients you want to attract.

I mean this in a helpful way from experience, not a hurtful way.

[Audrey]

Oh dear. *sighs* Mention a personal dislike for needlework, and the whole board lights up. Thanks, Kit, btw, for your words of support. http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif

Allow me to explain something. My boss may be from the thirties--he used to be a manager for Michael's, for God's sake--but I am not. I learned how to frame at a small, archivally oriented, very proudly run shop in another town...I moved here, and the only place willing to pay me what I need to make my rent was--GUESS WHO--the shop I am currently working at. I find it just as appalling as many of you...although I do not, thank God, take it as seriously.

So, for all those who seem to think that I have a terrible attitude and poor framing skills, allow me to correct you. Why should I do fabulous work for a third-rate shop when I plan to open one of my own? Why make his reputation better than it should be when I will be leaving? I have gone the extra mile for his clients but all it does is reinforce their idea that framing elsewhere is pointlessly expensive. (And we all know that's not true. You get what you pay for, anywhere.) I do not disparage him to his clients--he serves a purpose--but his clientele is not the kind I want to attract.

But until then, a girl's gotta pay the bills. So please, enough with the attacks on my attitude and "throwback" framing knowledge, O.K.? I enjoy framing. I also enjoy eating and air-conditioning...so I work where I can. I would have thought that fellow framers would be a less eager to attack...as well as maybe a better sense of humor. Shops like my boss's only make yours look better. LOL

So please...can you guys all lighten up a bit?


Audrey


P.S. My signature is in the same spirit of fun as the recent "Things I Don't Want To Hear" thread...I thought it would be taken just as lightly.

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I don't care what color your sofa is.

[KeepFraming]

I was taught, "you frame for the peice"

[Margaret]

Are you saying that because you work for a third rate shop, that you shouldn't take pride in what you are doing in that shop?

Some of the clients you wait on in this shop could very well become clients of the shop you wish to open someday.

Money, good taste, and kindness don't necessarily go together. You will still have tasteless customers with lots of money and a bad attitude.

You may also have an employee that really doesn't give a rats ### about you or your shop. Now that would be a shame.

[Margaret]

Maybe I am to touchy on this. I just know that even though my former employer/owner was behind the times and didn't do things quite right, I was a faithful, dedicated, loyal employee, NO matter what. She was PAYING me. That is what I would expect from my employees--unless it be against the law.

[Audrey]

This whole debate started b/c of a story I related about the woman who didn't want to spend any money on her cross-stitch. If she doesn't want to take her artform seriously, or spend any money on it, why should I take it any more seriously than she does? I have waited on customers who appreciate their artwork and are on a budget--and that is understandable. I do the best I can for them, and yes, Margaret, that is out of personal pride in what I do.

But when someone comes in who doesn't want to pay for any mounting, stretching, or glass charges, what were we supposed to do? Do it anyway? Framing is not a charity. She didn't want to pay for proper framing, we didn't give her proper framing. We gave her what she paid for...yes, it's frustrating, but what can you do? There's a thousand things I'd like to change, but as I said before, it's not my shop, and I don't make these decisions. I'd have loved to inform this woman that we're not the frame shop for her, and that it's against our standards to do what she asked, but hey, if wishes were horses...*sigh*

I take just as much pride in framing peoples' artwork as THEY take in it. If they don't want to pay for it, it's not my job to do it for free. I have framed many things for people with lots of money and very little taste, and I do my best to make them happy...a lot of them know me by name. For the people with no money AND no taste, what am I supposed to do? LOL

And I know every framer here has had one of those days where they seem to be beseiged by annoying customers who want the world for five bucks...and if we can't vent about it here without a landslide of criticism, where can we? I was very polite to that woman, and she got what she wanted, and thanked us for it; I thought it was a funny story and that you guys would get a kick out of it. http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/frown.gif

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I don't care what color your sofa is.

[Margaret]

Audrey, I know you have to do what you are employed to do, I believe I already covered that.
When I get a customer in that doesn't want to pay for stretching a needle work properly, I do not give them any option except "you can buy the frame, mats, glass and do the rest yourself." End of conversation in my store.

Going to bed, goodnight.

[lfoote]

Audrey, I don't know what is the matter with some of these grumblers, except, that is exactly what they are - Grumblers! Ever since you started to post on this formum, I have had a hearty laugh whenever I see your "I don't care what color your sofa is". I knew instantly where that came from, and so should all the other grumblers! Shouldn't the mats and frame chosen for a customer relate directly to the object being framed, not something else in a room where it may or may not be hung? I like to tell my customers that if the art itself will look good over the sofa, then the mats and frame chosen to enhance the art will also go with the sofa.
I hope you do get a shop of your own some day. It is the most fulfilling job! Never boring, always challenging!


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Linda Foote

[Scarfinger]

Not Grumbling - Encouraging!

[Jim Miller]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Audrey:
"...If she doesn't want to take her artform seriously...why should I take it any more seriously than she does?...But when someone comes in who doesn't want to pay for any mounting, stretching, or glass charges, what were we supposed to do?..."

Audrey, if she understands the impact of her decisions, then go for it.

But that's not usually the case. Most customers do not understand the hazards of cheap framing, nor the benefits of the better methods & materials. Customers assume too much when they believe cheaper framing is better. And so do we, when we assume they know enough about framing to make informed decisions.

Especially with needle arts -- Customers don't do all that work and then decide to ruin it with cheap framing. The go for cheap only because they don't know any better.

Good luck in opening your own frame shop. A word of advice: Don't try to compete on price, as your present boss does. To thrive -- indeed, to survive -- in just a few more years, it will be necessary for small single shop owners to find a niche; to offer products and services customers are willing to pay for, and that the Big Box competitors can't offer.

The days of "cut the price and take the order" are fading fast.

[FramerDave]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Margaret:
[B]Audrey, I know you have to do what you are employed to do, I believe I already covered that.
When I get a customer in that doesn't want to pay for stretching a needle work properly, I do not give them any option except "you can buy the frame, mats, glass and do the rest yourself." End of conversation in my store.

The keys words being "my store." IF the customer refuses to pay to do it right, and IF Audrey's boss throws a fit if she turns away business,and IF we are not a charity, I don't see what else she can do. Just slap it in the frame to satisfy the customer and the owner, and grin and bear it. You don't have much choice in the matter, and I can understand your resentment. Been there, done that. Hang in there. And just for the record, I don't give a rat's @$$ what color your sofa is, either.




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Have nothing in your houses that you do not know to be useful or believe to be beautiful." William Morris (1834-0896)

[Audrey]

Thanks guys! http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif

I was beginning to think that nobody understood what I was trying to say--I didn't check back on this board for a couple of days because, frankly, I was a bit annoyed at the way everyone seemed to be jumping on the bandwagon.... I appreciate the common sense. http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif

And I find it amusing for whatever reason, my "innocent" needleart remark has turned this thread into a flamer. LOL


Audrey

P.S. I see your point, Jim--but some people just can't see the future of their artwork beyond the future of their bank balance. http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif

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I don't care what color your sofa is.

[Margaret]

So I'm sucker for punishment. Didn't know about the humor of the sofa comment, so please forgive. I am a bit of a sporadic "grumbler" don't always have the time to keep up.
But coming from a family that loves to debate issues, I will make these observations.

Quotes from Audrey in reference to framing needlework:

"I will take it if I have to, and charge outrageously for it,"

"but in my experience, the people who do any kind of needlework here are the cheapest,"

"we basically ATG'd it to the mat."

Since I might not have a whole heapin' lot of "common" sense. I guess I don't understand if the customers are getting it socked to them "outrageously" with ATG, or they are really cheap, and getting an undeserved break.

Cheap doesn't mean poor. Poor customers don't come into custom frame shops. Cheap customers use a new form of bartering; "I don't want to pay that" or "I can't afford that" or "'so and so' down the street can do it for less"
They never tell you their kids are starving so they can pay for their 100 hour crosstitch to be framed.(if they do, call child welfare)

Over the years I have had a lot of these cheap customers. They have good incomes--more than I'll probably ever see. It is an art to be cheap. Ever get behind the professional coupon lady in the grocery store?

Lastly from Audrey;

"Why should I do fabulous work for a third-rate shop when I plan to open one of my own? Why make his reputation better than it should be when I will be leaving?"

Maybe a pay raise? When are you leaving?

Could someone kindly tell me how to take a quote from a previous post? Left mouse/copy/paste is how I did it.

[Audrey]

Margaret--

http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif It both amuses and saddens me that you took the time to re-type what I said....because it proves that you are more interested in proving yourself right than you are in actually READING what I typed.

I said that IF I owned my own shop, I would "take it [needleart] and charge outrageously for it," not that I do so currently. I do not set the prices where I work. As for people who come into frame shops being cheap vs. poor--it's a moot point anyway because the end result is the same. The actual finances of these customers is not my business; they could live in palaces for all I know. All I DO know is that they don't want to spend any money at the framing counter, any more than they want to spend any money at the grocery store. A coupon at the grocery store will still yield the same can of tomato soup. Similar tactics at the frame shop will result in a frame job of lesser quality. It is not my job to save people money.

And as for charging outrageously for anything that is ATG'd to a mat blank, I would never do so. The only thing that an ATG mount has to offer is its price--and that is all this customer was interested in. I explained that ATG can and will probably damage her artwork; that it is not always removable or reversible, and that there are far better ways to mount any piece of handwork.

She didn't care. After I realized this, I didn't care either. You are actually the only person who seems to care, and why you are so interested in proving it baffles me.

And as for cheap being an art, you may enjoy bartering at your frame shop over the price of whatever it is you are selling. God bless you. I do not have the power to change prices, nor the necessary interest.

And if you sleep better at night knowing that YOU wouldn't have taken that order, you probably need the sleep anyway.

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I don't care what color your sofa is.

[Margaret]

It realy isn't that important to me, but maybe you should go back and read your own posts.

[Audrey]

The thread was on wall-displays and the kind of work you want to attract with them...meaning "I will take them, and charge outrageously for them," but not display them on my wall. Which I do not have. Yet.

I assumed this was clear.

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I don't care what color your sofa is.

[Overcut]

This thread has become somewhat of a argument in progress. Lets all remember that to do the job right is what we all want. If we explain the proper way to frame a product for a customer and they don't want to pay for the service, whats a person to do.
I don't agree with telling the customer to do it themselves. You give them the options and after that, its the customers decision. Audrey has not done anything wrong she has only done what the customer wanted! Lets not use the Grumble for personal attacks or arguing for the sake of argueing. Hang in there Audrey. Your own shop will come someday and at that time, you'll be able to make your own decisions for you and your customers benefit. For the record, we think your signature line is terrific!

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Overcut the Barbarian
Frame it or throw it away

[Audrey]

Thanks, Overcut. http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif

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I don't care what color your sofa is.

[Bogframe]

http://members.aol.com:/bogframe/myhomepage/holybog.jpg
Here's another of my "famous" surface v-groove designs.

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Seth J. Bogdanove, CPF
21 years framing and still loving it

[This message has been edited by Bogframe (edited March 05, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Bogframe (edited March 05, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Bogframe (edited March 06, 2001).]

[Frame Harbor]

Seth, I cannot see any picture. Do it as you did last time. Copy and paste does not work.

[KeepFraming]

http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif


[This message has been edited by KeepFraming (edited March 05, 2001).]

[Frame Harbor]

http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/wink.gif


http://publish.hometown.aol.com/americanchoice/myhomepage/compozitie%2021.jpg
Instead of showing dried images of frames, I prefer to present objects in a computer created/edited environment, just like above. I was using a really ancient Adobe PhotoDeluxe Business 1.1 program, one that you don't really need to read any booklet in order to function with astonishing results.

[This message has been edited by Frame Harbor (edited March 05, 2001).]

[Bogframe]

last one for now http://members.aol.com/bogframe/myhomepage/vgrooves.jpg

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Seth J. Bogdanove, CPF
21 years framing and still loving it