Attach-Ez Revisited

[Ron Eggers]

I had my first hands-on experience with the Attach-Ez on Friday, and I'd like to share my thoughts on it. I'd also be interested in hearing suggestions from others that have been using it.

I'd prefer not to hear all the reasons it shouldn't work or shouldn't be used from those who have never used it, but, hey, it's an open forum.

I had a Chinese appliqué to attach to matboard and 1/8" fomecore. It's an interesting piece, but not an artifact. It has a black border around the outside, so I started by painting a number of the 1/2" fasteners black with a permanent Sharpie. (Just the part of the fasteners that are going to show.) That's easy and works just fine, but I have some concerns about the black Sharpie fading over time. We'll see.

The needle and fasteners are easy to install and remove. I used the larger gun and thought I was pushing it through the board gently with a twisting movement. Never-the-less, I bent two needles before I got the hang of it. After that I was fine, though I'm on my last needle.

For those of us who haven't seen a live demo, it would be really nice to see a short video about how to use the Attach-Ez. It could even be a downloadable video, like the one Frame Tek uses to demonstrate the Nori Paste. Also, I'd recommend that anyone who buys the kit buy some extra needles. Mine came with three for each gun, though I thought that two is standard. You may bend a few while you're learning. After that, a needle should last a long time.

I only needed nine fasteners for the piece I was doing, and they went in very quickly. There was a very small amount of slack with the 1/2" fasteners. I pulled them slightly tighter from the back and secured them with framer's tape - knowing that if the tape ever released, the slack would be a minimal problem. If I had more slack, I'd be tempted to secure the fasteners from the back with some glue.

One of my next projects is an old prom dress. I'll keep you posted.

[John Richards]

Ron: I saw you commented on Jim's new Attach Ez method. How about an update...or UP TO THE TOP!

I'm sure people will be interested before Atlanta since it is going to be demoed in the Fletcher booth.

[Merlin Framers]

Good timing... Fletcher-Terry have just advertised the Attach-ez in one of our trade magazines.
excellent.. maybe somebody in the UK will do wallbuddies one day..

[soho]

Question...what is the difference between this product and a commercial tagging gun that can be bought for $25.00 each, in light and heavy duty sizes, other than the length of the fasteners?

I haven't seen commercial fasteners shorter than 1" but isn't that workable with tape or glue to take up the slack?

I certainly will look for a demo in Atlanta.

Not trashing, just curious!

Joel

[JPete]

You have to use the others from the back and the size of the fasteners.

[soho]

If the fasteners are "T" shaped on both ends, why would you have to insert from the back?

[Merlin Framers]

Soho
We use a commercial Tag Gun, purchased from STAPLES - an office supply company.
We can get T shaped tags from 1/4 inch up to 1 inch.
It cost us $25. rough conversion £ to US$

[BUDDY]

I haven't even seen the Attach Eze yet.However when i heard all the suggestions about the commerical brands i rembered seeing one in the local Drug stores. Infact it has been advertised on TV. It was designed primarily to attach Buttons.I actually have emailed someone on HH who gave alist of alternate makes and told him (David) i'd look up the name and manufacturer,since it uses a double needle system that shoots U shaped fasteners that are appx. 3/16 in. long and are T shaped on the ends ,which are inserted from the front.
It is a BUTTONEER by Avery Dennison,Fastener Division www.buttoneer.com (http://www.buttoneer.com) .I have only tried it once but it seemed to hold tightly (Infact it has a problem if you try to go through a sheet of Fom-Cor.The best thing is that it Retailed for appx. $15 and that included the tool and 50 fasteners strips with 2 fasteners on each.
It is a bit award to use but it is magaeable.
BUDDY

[JPete]

From the back was how I saw it demonstrated as a possibility. I'm getting old too.

[ 08-30-2003, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: JPete ]

[Ron Eggers]

This is a duplicate of a message I just posted to HH. I apologize to those who read both.

Let me see if I understand this correctly.

Some of you have noticed that framers are using the Attach-Ez system and most of us like it. It hasn't occurred to you to use this tool, which has been around in various forms for other industries since Bob Carter was a youngster, for framing applications. But now that someone has worked out a system, with instructions, and packaged a kit specifically for framers, you'd like to find a better price somewhere.

Please explain how this is different from the customer who comes into your shop, has you work up a great design, and then shops all over town for someone who can do it cheaper. There's always going to be someone who can do it cheaper.

The whole idea behind Attach-Ez is to save time. If you have oodles of time, and no money, it's not going to be a good tool for you. For the rest us, how much time do you have to save to justify a $165 purchase?

Ron Eggers, CPF
The Total Picture
Appleton, WI

[Ron Eggers]

Actually, in re-reading the rest of this thread, my mini-rant was more appropriate on HH.

There are way too many HHers who would rather spend time shopping for tools and supplies than framing.

[BUDDY]

Ron :please don't take this as a personal insult ,but I think you have misunderstood some of the intentions of the post concerning the Attach Eze.I for one will be checking it out in Atlanta and may just come home with one.However I will be looking to see if the extra expense is justified (As it very well may be). But when you suggested that others have more time to waste shopping around for cheaper tool ,I think you have missed an important point ,(These alternate tools can be found almost every where) I found one at a local drug store and it is advertised nationally on TV.The question is will they work as well?
As to some not considering the potential until another suggest it ,well I'm always getting information from more intelligent people ,that's why I participate on both TFG and HH.
As to the similarity to a client shopping my design at other shops to find a cheaper price ,I 've grown very used to that and I suspect every other entrepenure has also .But as I think Bob has pointed out being cheapest isn't always the answer .Can the cheaper model do the job as well? Case in point I regularly watch a Cooking show on the Local PBS sataion on which there is a regular segment where they test various cooking implements being used in the show. they test several and rate them BOTH for effectiveness and price and some times the higher priced implement isn't as good but also some times the lower priced one is eqally as good but rated a better buy.If I'm not mistaken this is exactly the premiss "Consumer Reports" is based on also.
But most of all I think what some of the other framers on TFG and HH were attempting to do is give everyone the benefit of their time shopping to save pennies.LOL
By the way I will always have more time than Money ,but if I spend my time well listing to other more informed people maybe I can save a penny or two that I didn't need to waste as well as saving some well need shop time.
BUDDY

[ 08-31-2003, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: BUDDY ]

[soho]

My innocent question still remains...what is the difference between Attach-Ez and a commercial tagging gun?

If it is essentially the same product at 7 times the price and the only difference is the instructions aimed at the framing industry I cannot justify the huge price difference.

If I see the product demonstrated in Atlanta and it is substantially better than the $25.00 machine I'll gladly buy one on the spot!!

[Framerguy]

Joel,

At the risk of being accused of undermining the future of Attach-Ez, I will tell you what I understand of some of the differences.

The needles are much thinner than a conventional labeler which makes the entry hole less visible and does less damage to the fabric art.

Same too for the attaching parts, they are thinner, shorter, and made out of inert(?) nylon.

If the attaching parts are too long for the fabric being mounted, the recommendation is to pull the "T" part through the back of the mounting board and tape down.

Ron (who was too tight to buy one) :D has been running a "test" model through very rigorous testing to see if it truly IS the next great framing tool. Most of his testing results are highly classified so we may have to wait until he is de-briefed and allowed to come out of isolation.

Indications are, from the little bit of information that has leaked out, that Ron is under self induced "shop" arrest until he successfully mounts 100 crocheted names with the Attach-Ez and that he will NOT, repeat will NOT, be present in Atlanta for personal appearances and interviews.

I hope that this little bit of information was of some help to you, soho.

Framerguy

[Ron Eggers]

Joel, that IS a reasonable question and I hope you'll get the answers you're looking for in Atlanta.

In the meantime, FramerGuy has given you the most important difference. The smaller of the two guns that comes in the kit is more delicate than the ones that are generally available. They make a smaller hole and use fasteners that are all but invisible.

You can safely ignore the rest of FramerGuy's post. My basement is a museum of questionable equipment purchases I wasn't too cheap to buy.

I have a Mat Maestro, for Pete's Sake! :D

[JPete]

If those tag guns worked so well, why the heck didn't we all have one or two of them already. And if you really want to know, buy that $25 item and use it. Just venting....FG, you should buy early or you will have to wait for more to be made. You could save money and buy just the smaller of the two. Have a good time in Atlanta.

[soho]

Thinner needles and nearly invisible thingys makes sense.

Thanks for the info guys!!

Off to Atlanta tomorrow!!

Joel

[Bud Cole]

Let me make a suggestion--Check out www.fetpak.com (http://www.fetpak.com) and see if you like what they have to offer re: tagging guns and supplies. I think they are top notch as I have been using them for over a year and they sure aren`t anything compared to the price that some of you are paying. Take it for what its worth. Bud Cole

[John Ranes II, CPF, GCF]

Bud,

Thanks for the source. You and others have shared that the standard fine fabric tagging gun is available from a variety of sources. Like you, I've been using it for over four years. An Australian framer shared it's application with me on one of my trips down under.

Since then, I've added the complete Attach-Ez kit to my shop's tool rack, as well.

What the Attach-Ez package gives you is the Microtach hand tool. This smaller tag is ONLY available through Fletcher-Terry distributors and adds another option to your mounting techniques.

Jim Miller will be demonstrating these tools in his Shadowbox Seminar here in Atlanta this weekend.

Remember also that you can order the kit, either tagging tool and replacement tags along with your regular framing supply orders. smile.gif

Regards,

John (Atlanta)

[ 09-04-2003, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: John Ranes II, CPF, GCF ]

[Framerguy]

Bringing this back to the top for an update from Ron.

(Wouldn't you just know I'd be the one to do THAT!!)

Framerguy

[Ron Eggers]

I think everyone should use WallBuddies. I can't think of a good reason NOT to use them for a wide variety of framing projects.

I think everyone should use Nori paste to make Japanese hinges. Why cook starch paste or take shortcuts when Nori is SO easy and effective?

If you're not comfortable with Attach-Ez or you think it costs too much, I don't care. I won't be offended or impacted financially if you don't use it. I even understand some of the objections. What I don't understand is the endless-loop discussions about them. It makes me think some of you weren't paying attention the first 21 times we talked about it.

I'm using it. I like it. I'm still playing with different applications, but there is a secure spot for this tool in my arsenal.

[Framerguy]

Originally posted by Ron Eggers:
One of my next projects is an old prom dress. I'll keep you posted. Didn't mean to get your hackles up, ol' bud. I was simply curious how this project worked out. It should be much heavier than a Chinese applique and I haven't seen any other objective posts from you on what you have "experimented" with since you got your AEZ.

Now I may get your hackles up, how do you qualify the following statement??

(Quote from Ron Eggers)

The whole idea behind Attach-Ez is to save time. If you have oodles of time, and no money, it's not going to be a good tool for you. For the rest us, how much time do you have to save to justify a $165 purchase?

I'd hate to think that you have based your judgement on the basis of one Chinese applique and a donated Attach EZ.

Framerguy

[Ron Eggers]

FramerGuy, I haven't done the prom dress. The customer is still gathering auxiliary articles for the project. I HAVE mounted several other projects, but really don't have any new information to add.

And my hackles aren't up. You've seen my hackles, haven't you, and these ain't it.

I AM wondering where you got the idea my Attach-Ez was "donated." John Richards offered to send one on approval, but I emailed him and canceled it since I already had one on the way. Had I gone to the TC spring break trade show as planned, I would have bought one there.

[Framerguy]

Sorry about that, Ron. I was not aware of that. Another instance where somebody says something without knowing the whole story. I'm glad it happened amongst friends, eh?

Well, keep us posted on how it goes when your customer brings in the rest of the stuff. Believe it or not, I AM interested in how it turns out. With the Microtak available from Avery Dennison now, I might invest in one to try out.

(If I can get the rent paid first.)

FGII