Stuck photograph

[Lea]

I hope someone can help me! My sister has an old photograph of her and I when we were kids that was put into a regular frame against glass many, many (25+) years ago. The picture is now stuck to the glass in a couple of areas. It must have gotten damp or wet at some time because there is also some mold in a corner, but that can be trimmed off. She tried to remove the pic but it started to tear so she left it. Does anyone know how to remove this picture without doing further damage? Thanks!! http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif

[RonEggers]

I have had some success with placing a photo that's stuck to glass in a tray of water for a short time to remove it. With one that may have been stuck for a while, that might soften the emulsion enough to just cause further damage, so it's very chancy!

I once scanned a photo that was stuck to the glass, and the glass was broken, on a good flatbed scanner and used Photoshop to retouch out the crack. I never did get the original off the glass, but the customer was so pleased with the copies that she had me print and frame copies for all her siblings.

Ron

[Lance E]

Take it to a Photolab with a decent scanner and someone who is good at retouching with Photoshop or simlar, the glazing can make it very difficult to get good colour. They should be doing it all the time, you're certainly not the only one with this problem.

[Lea]

Thanks guys! You'd think I'd have enough sense to call a photo developer, duh. I guess I was looking for some magic potion http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif Much appreciated.

[Susan May]

Check the archives, there are a few threads about this subject.

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Sue May, TBF

[Marc Lzier]

You can click one of these two threads: http://www.thegrumble.com/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001268
http://www.thegrumble.com/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001446

This is more or less what appeared in PFM (that's Picture Framing Magazine,
www.pictureframingmagazine.com) (http://www.pictureframingmagazine.com)) in November 99. All the methods can and do work, and I used them with good results. But hey, Iv'e got good insurance and good luck. Any of these methods can do do horrible things when applied to the wrong photo process.
Don't tempt fate, and just play it safe.

Counter Intelligence
By Marc Lizer
Information for Your Framing Counter
Counter Intelligence tries to bring you information to give you realistic solutions and strategies to deal with problems and challenges that you, the framer, will encounter.
This month's problem is photos that are stuck to glass. The first and best answer will always be: don't mess with the customer's stuff. You will anger the Framing Gods and bad things will happen. The other choice is mess with it, and if the Framing Gods shine kindly down upon you, then you might get lucky.

First, for the uninitiated, I will clarify what photos I am talking about. Common every day snap-shots (b/w or color, new or slightly older/vintage), that at one time or another
were framed so the glass rested directly on the photograph and eventually stuck to the
glass at one or more points. This sticking occurs because condensation formed at the
points of contact (this is why we use mats or spacers), and the photographic emulsion
layer has now glued (or bonded) itself to the glass. The first, best, longest lasting, least invasive, and safest thing to do for the customer is to recommend or have a copy
negative made. And, be done with it.
Frame the copy. Put the original (with glass attached) in an envelope and, put it on the
back of the frame. This advice comes from Kodak to the corner photo shop/processor.

As framers we sometimes can't leave well enough alone. And, when the customer looks
to us with those plaintive puppy dog eyes and pleads for you to help un-stick Uncle Fred,
some may feel it is within their power to release Uncle Fred from his precarious bondage.

In speaking with framers I have compiled approaches that some have used.

Process: Soak in cold water
Theory This will moisten the emulsion and un-stick the photo.
What can go wrong: The water gets in behind the emulsion layer and then you and the
photo are screwed(to be changed at the editors discretion to something more appropriate ).

Process: Soak in Photo-Flo solution Theory: Photo-Flo is used in the developing process when the film is wet. It is made up of an emulsifier and a wetting agent. It may make it release.
What can go wrong: Photo-Flo is designed to be used to make film dry evenly with no spots on the film. It makes the water 'flow' off. It is made to interact with film chemistry and not photo paper chemistry. It is made for b/w film, and not designed for color paper or color film chemistry. Photographers can substitute a mild dishwashing detergent if they run out of Photo-Flo. But is it wise to soak a customers' irreplaceable memory in
dishwater?

Process: Un-Seal, Adhesive Release, or some other nasty solvent.
Theory: It's stuck. And, this stuff un-sticks stuff.
What can go wrong: These solvents soften adhesives. The emulsion is stuck to the glass without any such adhesives applied. Plus, these solvents can eat their way through things you never even imagined. I'm sure they can do wonders for the photos.

Process: Heat up the front of the glass.
Theory: The heat will soften the emulsion and the photo can be peeled off without damage.
What can go wrong: You can soften more than the stuck area and have more stuck than
when you began. Or you might just bake the emulsion, and cooked emulsion is a very bad
thing. Heating the glass may also cause it to break on top of the photograph.

Kodak maintains that any of these processes MAY work if the photo was not truly stuck
to the glass. More like partially stuck, instead of completely stuck. If only partially stuck then pretty much anything would have taken it off, like a stiff breeze for example. It is Kodak's official position that a photo stuck to glass is not to be disturbed, and a duplicate made for viewing purposes. Professional photo conservators have methods and processes they employ for this and other problems. But you are a framer and not a specialist in this field, and have no way of really knowing how stuck it is without potentially causing more damage.
And, there is no way of determining how 'stuck' the item is before you begin tampering with your customers' precious memories. So what is a framer to do?

With the advances in imaging technology it is easier, cheaper and faster than ever
before to get a copy neg. or direct positive copy made through the glass, with surprising
clarity and fidelity to the original. Both the Kodak Picture Maker and Fuji Pictostat are nice machines that can do this while you wait. Your local photo shop will have one or
point you in the right direction of where to find one. Or a good flatbed digital scan can
be done beforehand. In the event of total catastrophe the client has in one from or
another a usable copy to fall back upon. It would also be wise to have the name of a few
good photo restoration artists that will able to do work on the damaged original. In our
area we use Valley Photo Service for many such needs.
The right person for the right job will always safeguard customers work. You are safer not ruining your customers memories with assorted voodoo rituals, and using current standards for re-framing the photographs to ensure the preservation of the newly created memories.

OKAY, so I cheated, and had this written up before, and just cut and pasted.
BUT, since it is yours. IF it was me . . .
just soak it in COLD water. COLD it the key. Room, luke, or warm water can soften the emulsion and cause lifting.

[ 02-26-2004, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: framer tg: ]

[Marc Lzier]

Allright,
I just re-read your post.

It is already tearing and lifting.

I don't reccomend this, BUT.

Pull off what you can. Razorblade off the pieces. Re-attach the pieces.

Now, scan and re-touch digitally.

Just an aside question: Does the orginal neg sxist in an attic somewhere? Just dig it up, and print a new one?