Thumbnailer or Vnailer?

[Len]

Anyone have recomendations which way to go for the perfect join? Pro's and con's on both would be helpful. Also if anybody has used a foot operated Cassese, comments would be very helpful.

[Jim Miller]

V-nailer.

Cassese is good, as are several others. Personally, I prefer a pneumatic machine, but that requires a compressor. If your budget, space, and production quantities are small, maybe a foot-operated machine is better for your needs. You could upgrade later.

The best you can do is go to a show and give them all a try. Or if that can't happen, visit other frame shops and ask to try theirs. You might be surprised how helpful other framers are -- even if you are considered a distant competitor.

[Ron Eggers]

No contest. Get the underpinner (v-nailer.)

Thumb-nailers are noisy and dusty and sometimes the plastic inserts break after the frame is hanging for a while.

Underpinners are faster, will handle more profiles (though not ALL profiles) and are generally quieter. A cheap compressor will be extremely loud, however, and a good one will cost more than an Thumbnailer. If you use a cheap one, filter it well and put it in a separate room and run a hose. Then you can use the air for a slight-headed pinner (for those profiles that can't be underpinned,) a Flexipoint fitting gun and for scaring small children.

[Len]

I've recently entered a frame shop that has a manual cassese underpinner that appeared to never have been maintained, lubricated or cleaned, and not working upon my arrival. After completely disassembling, cleaning, and putting it back togeather, it now will send a v nail up but no matter how hard I try to hold it in place it spreads the mld. about 1/16 apart where the vnail enters it. Since the previous framer is no longer available, and the owner says he never had a problem joining with this machine in its present state, I am now at a loss as what the problem could be. Is it me or machine? I've been framing for ten years useing a thumbnailer with rarely a problem. Any Ideas? We also had a sales rep com in that used to sell this machine, he also took it apart, put it back togeather but wasn't able to make a decent join. This is a high production shop, with a large volume of joining to be done, I'm stumped.

[Ron Eggers]

Len, are the frames you're joining hardwood (esp oak or ash,) softwood or both? There are special hardwood wedges but, frankly, I always found that joining oak or ash with the pneumatic Cassesse to be less than completly reliable, even with the hardwood wedges.

[Len]

Ron, The frames I'm trying to join have been the softwood, on the manual cassese, as I thought I would try to get it working on soft first before I tried the hard. When things get going I will be (hopefully) joining both, I'm saying this with hesitation when I hear that hardwood on a pneumatic can be unreliable. How do the company's that are presently chop and joining for us do it? I'm guessing with a top o the line pneumatic. I'm thinking that I should take Jim's advice and go see how its done and with what for myself.Thanks for the input.

[Dermot]

Len

Are you using softwood wedges!!!!!!!………… and I know this sounds silly but are the wedges in the right way up……I have put them in the wrong way up and it causes gapping.

Anyway good luck with sorting the problem………Welcome to the Grumble

Regs

Dermot

[Len]

Hi Dermot, Yes I am useing the softwood wedges on the soft wood, also tried hard wood wedges on the soft wood, same results. As far as putting them in the wrong way, seems impossible on the Cassese as they will only go in one way due to the design of the cartridge. Thanks for your idea, as that certainly would have solved the problem if that was the case.

[George Hunter]

Len

Prior to going pneumatic I used the manual Cassese for years and still do for some mouldings.

I can think only of 2 possible causes for your problem. Either the moulding is not being held or clamped tightly during insertion or the moulding has not been cut accurately (rebate supports incorrectly set on morso).

Have you tried joining a plain flat moulding profile and inserting v-nail in centre?

I will take a look at my Cassese tomorrow to see if I can think of anything else.

[FrameItEtc]

Len... when i started my business, back in 1982, i clamped and nailed moulding together. In 1989, I purchased a thumbnailer. Compared to "clamp and nail", using "thumbnails" was an absolute advantage....i used it for 11 years. About 2 years ago, i purchased a v-nailer. Although the "Thumbnailer" is nice to have, the v-nailer i have been using for the past 2 years has it beat blindfolded. Good luck.