need help getting started

[robnali]

we are opening a print/custom frame shop that will do a volume of about 10 custom frame orders/day. need all equipment to get started(except metal chopper). are there any suggestions for a "start-up" kit- something that will give us everything we will need from start to finish-chopper, mat cutter, glass cutter, joiner, etc. budget a strong consideration, so I would definetely look at new/used/refurbished. please advise. thanks!!

[Charles Lowry]

robnali, if you've read any of the matcutter pros and cons threads, you know it's a Ford/Chevy sorta thing. I might humbly suggest that, in the vein of new equipment, you call Fletcher. They make everything except a joiner...I don't think they make a joiner. I don't own a joiner as yet, but hope to soon. I have been looking at a Cassese, or Casesse, whichever way it's spelled. They have a foot-operated one, and then the pneumatics progress upwards from there.

I started a thread a while back, asking for opinions on the Cassese joiner. Got 1 response, but a couple of emails with very attractive offers on slightly used ones. My single response was from a Grumbler whose opinion I hold in the absolute highest regard. He said that they were the best, as far as support from the factory is concerned.

We're not ready to take the leap right now, but if you're interested, let it be known here, and hopefully the same ones that emailed me will email you.

Good luck.

[This message has been edited by Charles Lowry (edited March 28, 2001).]

[carladea]

Just one quick question--How can you know before you even open what volume of framing you will be doing? Just wondering. Benn doing this for years and still couldn't tell you what our per day volume is. Maybe I should figure it out!

[Rick]

Here is a list of equipment that might fit your needs. Everyone feel free to edit and advise the list as you see fit.


Mat cutter: make sure it is 60" mat cutter, you will shot yourself later when you can't cut an oversize mat. Computer Aided cutters are great but kind up expensive and it's a good idea to have a table cutter around in case your future computer cutter is on the blink.


Mounting Press of some sort:
I have a Seal Jumbo 160M and like it alot. It's not the biggest on the block and will only do images 36" wide and unlimitedly long but will get you started and doesn't take up much space. You can always contract out the big stuff until money gets better.


Mat/Glass cutter:
This you can hold off on if money is really tight. If you buy a matt cutter with a squaring arm, you can cut you mats to size with your mat cutter. It's not the fastest way to do it but will get you started.


Saw:I bought the Morso Deluxe Chopper No.2804A from United and love it to pieces. Agian not the fastest saw on the block but gives you great control of your moulding and you can also cut liners and filets perfectly on it.
For metals, I own a DeWalt compond saw set with a blade made to cut only metals. My dad got the blades for me from one of his dealers at the machine shop he runs. If you want, I could find out where he got them. Compound saws are really loud and messy so I use it as little as possible but I highly recommend owning one. You can have your harder to cut metal profiles ordered chop until money gets better. I only us the DeWalt on moulding with a low mark-up so I don't have to eat the loss of a chop charge.
Glass Cutter: The hand held kind, about $3.oo cash. Once you get bigger, the wall mounts can save time but until then, you can't beat $3.00.


Air compressor: Buy the biggest tank you can afford and try and buy one with a belt drive and not a diaphram. These things get loud and the smaller the tank, the more times it will go off during the day. The belt drives are alittle bit more quiet and last twice as long. Also, please don't build a box around your compressor to quiet it up. The only way to compress air is to draw air into it. Noise boxes starve the compressor of air and burn it out. Unless you know someone who knows how to build them correctly, just deal with the noise. Don't forget the water trap!!!!! I have an industrial size water trap at the source and smaller ones at each outlet next to an extra pressure regulator. Most of the condensation will occur in the line and not in the tank. Water flying out at originals is very bad, especially when its a nice shade of rust.


V-Nialer:
All I have right now is the United Mitre Vises and I think every shop should have at least one lying around. The need for an underpinner is getting to be a neccesity, people are starting to frown on nail holes in the corners. It's like a sign that your new at the game, but some moulding needs the extra support of nails so have your vise around just in case.
Framer said he liked the Junior Bench Model N0.2235 VN-J and I going to pick one up next chance I get.


On hand tools:
Buy the best once. Cheap tools always break when you can't afford to replace them. If you buy your hand tools a Sears, don't pay with a company check or credit card. One of their sales associates told me that thier warranties are for occasional home use and commercial use will void them. I'm not sure how much water that holds but why chance it.


Supplies: Spring Clips don't spoil. If you think supplies are expensive now, wait until you have to start paying rent and overhead.
I bought all my hardware at 1000 per item. All spring clips, fasteners, hangers, screws, metal corner plates, etc, where all bought at a 1000 per order. By the time you go through that many pieces, you should be making enough money to re-order.
Same thing on glass, buy ever size of box of clear glass they make. Everyone has good intentions in cutting down glass to the next stardard size but it never seems to get done and winds up being thrown away. You might want to hold off on the truck load of non-glare and UV until you know your clients better, but you will always need clear glass. Buy the pre-washed glass(Tru-Vue and the likes), the cheap stuff is dirty and a pain to clean. Oh yah, Windex and paper towels suck, buy glass spray and tissues.

Aside from a few things I forgot, you can open the doors with the equipment above. Your workload with determine when to upgrade so until then this will get you by. Unless you are going for big production commercial jobs.
You could buy a car with the difference between High production equipment and low production so keep that in mind when buying your equipment.
My thoughts on buying used equipment, " If you can't fix and maintain it yourself or it has electronic components, buy it new."
My first attempt at a frame shop was a passionate one and cost me a down payment on a house. Plan your moves carefully and base everything on the worst case scenerio.


Remember
"An Army is only as good as it's supply line." Can't remember who said that, sorry.
Rick

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If you don't take care of your tools, they won't take care of you.

[ArtLady]

Take Rick's list and shop for used equipment. Most of the framing equipment is built to last and you can keep startup costs down by buying used.

Where do you start. Buddy up to your reps they are good sources. Check out auctions, Ebay, distributors, the equipment section of this forum, and the trade magazines. A little work can save you thousands.

Do we need all the bells and whistles up front. I don't think so.

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Timberwoman
AL
I cut the mat, I pet the =^..^= cat.

[PAMELA DESIMONE,CPF]

My shopping list "must haves"- 40 x 60 dry mount vacuum press; 40 x 60 mat cutter ( I have a nice Esterly for sale, check used equipment section); vices ( I like a minimum of four), a multi-angle vice (if you can find one. They really help on wide corner frames you need to "tweak" because the vice is adjustable); underpinner. Regular glass-all sizes from 11x14 to 30x40; non-glare-at least 24 x 36 and 33x40; conservation clear-same as non-glare. Mitre-sander (some love them, some don't, but I wouldn't be without mine. Two cordless drills-one for srews, one for drilling small holes in hardwood (so the screweyes go in without breaking); 12", 36" and 48" rulers. A point-of-sale computer. Secondary equipment-nothing beats a CMC; a wall-mount glass and board cutter( you can do without for now, but they are great to have); saw (if I were new, I would work off chops for now, and see how things go). You won't need two saws. One saw with carbide blades cuts both wood and metal. Extra blades for the saw( you'll need an extra set for when one set is being sharpened). I'm sure there is more, but that's all I can up with for now. Your expectations of 10 jobs per day seem high to me, especially since you are opening a new shop. I, too, was wondering how you came up with this figure? I don't think I took in 10 jobs the first WEEK I was in business.

[MerpsMom]

We'd all have things on our list that match up fairly well to what's been posted, but there have been several comments about a wall-mounted glass/mat/plexi cutter not being all that essential. I can't imagine setting up shop without one. It's one of the most time-saving devices we own, and the second piece of equipment on the initial list. But there you go...that's why Baskin-Robbins have 31-plus flavors.

[alan beitz]

A nice quiet LARGE CAPACITY air compressor would be about the most used bit equipment we own. It is in another room and it goes all day because all our gear is air powered if possible . A wall mounted glass cutter isn't absolutley necessary but once you had had one you will wonder how you survived without one but get one that will cut mdf board . Ours wont but since seeing one in action I'm most impressed .
We started on the bones of our a--e and it makes you appreciate having good gear but you can start small and work up.
I hope you make a sucess of what you want to do. --- Alan

[John Ranes II, CPF, GCF]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by alan beitz:
A wall mounted glass cutter isn't absolutley necessary but once you had had one you will wonder how you survived without one but get one that will cut mdf board . Ours wont but since seeing one in action I'm most impressed . --- Alan<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Sorry Alan,

Merps Mom is correct that a wall cutter falls into my "Top Ten" list of required equipment to open a new shop! It's such a mandatory item, that we have two in our shop....cutting Foam centered board, matboard, glass and acrylic. MDF - NO.

Both Fletcher and KeenCut make wall cutters capabile of cutting MDF (medium density fibreboard), but in North America, it's really very seldom used. (Exception would be on reinforcing framed mirrors and Plaque Mounting).

MDF is some pretty "nasty" material and really doesn't belong in a framing package......besides adding weight, absorbing mosture, being acidic, difficult to cut........it's a great framing product! http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/rolleyes.gif

Robnali,

I'd recommend a 60inch wallcutter (unless you have a ceiling height problem), and contrary to others, I'd start off with a NEW 48inch matcutter (Rather than a 60inch). No machine will pay for itself faster than your matcutter. 98% of most custom shop frame work falls under 48inches......and that will work as long as you have a 60inch wallcutter to size the material.

If you start off with a CMC, get one that can handle 40x60 board.....that's a given at this price range.

Regards,

John

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The Frame Workshop of Appleton, Inc.
www.theframeworkshop.com (http://www.theframeworkshop.com)
Appleton, Wisconsin
jerserwi@aol.com
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[This message has been edited by John Ranes II, CPF, GCF (edited April 02, 2001).]

[Mitch]

Everyone has forgotten to mention the ATG gun.

United has a supply list you can get for the asking. It may be a bit outdated but will be a good start.

[Janet]

A local distributor (that is no longer in business) was a wonderful resource for me when I was getting started. They even suggested companies where I could buy framing equipment cheaper than they could sell it to me. As was mentioned earlier in this thread, "buddy" up to some of your reps and they will be more than willing to help IF you ASK for the help. They want you to be successful too as it puts bucks in their pockets as well.

Good luck,
Janet

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How cheap do you want it to look??

[Marc Lzier]

RE: wall cutter,

But it will cut Cintra (Sintra), and other PVC type sheet material, that are gaining popularity as art substrates and art backings.

[PAMELA DESIMONE,CPF]

Mitch, I sure don't consider an ATG gun a necessary piece of equipment. I have three I stopped using because they wasted tape and kept breaking. We all like using the tape right off the roll in both my shops. Make sure you get 1/2" AND 1/4" ATG.

[vicki]

Welcome Robnali! This is my first post as well. I read over all the other posts and they sound great. Everybody forgot about samples though. Crescent Cardboard will be happy to fix you up with a full line of corner samples as well as racks to get you started. We also have a starter kit for new framers. Please e-mail me so we can get you all the material you will need. Good Luck!
Vicki

[Janet]

Vicki

Where were you when I was getting started?

Welcome to the Grumble!

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How cheap do you want it to look??