Thomas Kinkade on 60 minutes

[Blueskies]

Did anyone see Morley Safer's interview with Thomas Kinkade on 60 minutes Sunday night?

One couple had collected 138 Kinkade pieces in a mere 9 months I think. These people are in desperate need of a life. They parted with over $150,000 for this honor.

In the interview one of Kinkade's spokespersons stated that there are 40 walls that can accomodate pictures in the average house, and his goal is to have his work on every one of them.

Sorry Tom, not in this house.

What do you guys think about his work?

Don

[Framar]

Nor in my house. His work is just a little too sweet for my taste. This thread should be on Warped. Do you really think the average house has 40 walls? I wish!

[John Ranes II, CPF, GCF]

Let's see.............

Although it's Monday night....late, and I've been out playing darts......4 walls minimum to a room....we've still got:

1) Bedroom One
2) Bedroom Two
3) Office Three
4) Living Room
5) Upstairs Hallway
6) Landing
7) Kitchen
8) Dining Room
9) Entrance
10) Kitchen

Now I live in a very small and modest home, but I still comes up with 40 walls......and as out of it is that I am at this hour.....No Thomas Kincade hangs on any of these walls either! But his average number of walls may bear true.

John

[Blueskies]

Sorry about the misplaced thread....I was debating where to post this and it seemed a bit more "framing" than "general gripes or comments."

20 years ago I too probably would have thought that Kinkade's work was art and may have even bought one. Thanks to my wife (an art major) I now know what real art is. I'm proof that you can teach good taste.

Don

[Bob Carter]

It looks like poor old Thom gets inducted into the Framer's Hall of Shame along with Martha Stewart, Craig Ponzio, Peter LaMarche and so many others that have been tremendously successful.

I'm glad that we have people that bring more favorable attention and products to my industry. We ought to be thankful for his products-I've framed them and look forward to more. I love the sound of my cash register better than the sounds of complaining. And his stuff never gets framed cheaply. What a great target market-Kinkade buyers. I wish we had more.

None hang in my house, but what does hang is my choice. The way it should be.

For me, my choice is about buying. Everyone else's choice is about them buying. I just want us to frame them.Take the money and run. And let's encourage all of those that bring more to our industry. We really do need all the help we can get.

[This message has been edited by Bob Carter (edited December 02, 2001).]

[RonEggers]

Gee, Bob, isn't this still the Picture Framers Grumble? We all rant here about the people we love to hate in our industry so that our customers (and our families) don't have to listen to it. It's a kind of therapy, not a business philosophy!

As far as I'm concerned, you can add Terry Redlin to your list. When I see one come through the door and the customer asks, "What do you think of it?" I can say, quite honestly, "I think you're going to love it when it's framed!" I don't feel compelled to mention that I wouldn't have it in MY house.

If I only framed the art that I personally like, I'd be flippin' burgers in my spare time. And I DON'T want to hear from all the indignant burger-flippers out there. It's a noble profession and I frequently avail myself of their services.

Ron

[MiterMan]

There you go again Bob. One more time:

We villify Martha because she has appointed herself Domestic Goddess and spews bad information about framing.

We tear into Christopher because he has named himself Goddess of Tack and pours forth bad advice about framing.

We excoriate Thomas because we don't like his crappy business practices and like his art even less. I personally can't stand the fact that he shrouds himself in John 3:16 and little fish symbols to reach a market niche and steals from other artists.

We give Mr. LaMarche a toungue lashing because of his company's less than stellar customer service.

I guess some dump on Ponzio because he's a big target and perhaps a big ego. But I'd be more than happy to have customers walk in my door every day and ask for the Craig Ponzio collection.

I don't recall seeing anyone begrudge any one of them the money they have made or the success acheived.

As for "our own lack of success" I think there are some pretty darned successful and happy people here on the Grumble.

[AnneL]

Thanks, Miterman! You about summed it up. I wouldn't object to Martha, et al. if their advise to the public was to have a professional framer frame their valuable art. Instead it is the opposite, that people can do it themselves. I fail to see how that kind of attitude can help our sales.

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Anne LeBouton

[Bob Carter]

Okay, Okay. I get it. Please feel free to refer all those artist's work to me. I just can't seem to frame one for less than $400. I know that's small potatoes to the more gifted in Grumbleland, but to us, it's a decent sale.

And our disdain for them and their attitudes don't somehow filter down into our own affected attitudes. And that's suppossed to help sales? Help our industry? Come on, there's room for all of us.

What makes the Kinkades, the Ponzios, the Stewarts, so doggone successful? It's because they do so much more right than wrong; that they satisfy their core constituency so well; that they provide a product or service that a tremendous majority of the market pay for, often at a premium. I'll follow Ellen's sage advice: I'll use what works and pass on the rest.

But, I think it's bad form to criticize when it's for the sake of criticism.

[This message has been edited by Bob Carter (edited December 02, 2001).]

[framechick]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Blueskies:
What do you guys think about his work?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If I did like it I'd be afraid to say so here! I studied drawing for years with a very strict teacher and the thing I spent the most time on is perspective. I find the perspective in the Kinkades I have looked at to be off and I find that unsettling and therefore am not a fan.

Whether I like or don't like the images themselves has long since become immaterial. The fact that "Painter of Light" is a registered trade mark and that ads for his collectors' plates and snow globes fall out of my Sunday Supplement, and he has his own line of linens,and a show on the home shopping channel, and it won't be long before there are clothes has done far more to affect my opinion of Mr. Kincade. One cannot deny that he is a savvy business person. Who can fault him for that? I wouldn't hang half of what my clients bring in in my home. I have never had a Kincade piece in any shop I've worked in. There is a Kincade gallery 2 blocks from my current location.


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Blueskies:
One couple had collected 138 Kinkade pieces in a mere 9 months I think. These people are in desperate need of a life. They parted with over $150,000 for this honor.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's more than 3 pieces a week. On one hand I want to say eegads! How do they have time to enjoy each of those things. On the other hand, I'd love to be their framer!

I've worked with collectors before. It's great. After a while they just drop off the pieces and say "Do something that goes with the others."

For the record I have no gripe with Martha outside of bad framing advice. Some of what she suggests is over the top and would be much easier if I also had a full team of production assistants. She turned a vague sort of talent into a media empire. I doubt I'll ever have myown empire.

Martha and Christopher do not have an exclusive on bad DIY advice. At least once a week I turn on HGTV and see some horrible thing or other being done to paper art, or antique frames being painted with radiator paint. "Make your own mats from sphaggnum moss!" Most of these travesties invlove hot glue guns.


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Meghan C. McCord, CPF
J. Pocker & Son
Rye, NY
914-925-6700
mcm87@att.net

[Blueskies]

It seems I started a small arms conflict on the Grumble and that wasn't my original intention. BTW, I framed a Thomas Kinkade needlepoint just yesterday.

I will step off my moral high horse and frame Kinkade pieces and listen to my cash register purr from now til doomsday. (Or until the market is so flooded with them that they are essentially worthless). I tend to take Ron's approach, "wow, that's going to look great after it's framed."

I like to give our customers framing options that make them think outside the norm. It's here that I can show people what I think looks good and I can express opinions. As far as art....it sells itself. I can't beat someone over the head and make them like something they don't. In my original post I mentioned I was rescued from bad taste long ago. The important thing to remember here is I was a willing subject!

My whole gallery is Kinkade free. I can't imagine what I'd have to do to become a dealer. I'm just not interested.

People critique all the art in my gallery
every day when I unlock the door. I never suggested that my services were worthy of artists that only got the "Don Stamp Of Approval." Sure, I'm an art critic, but I can keep my opinions to myself while writing up a nice frame order.

Don

[Cheryl Crocker CPF GCF]

I dont' think Kincade is being vilified now that he is successful. I get a lot of "art" in which is similar in style or by a popular regional artist which I don't like, but will frame to the hilt in a minute.

Have you looked at some of his recent works? Sloppy and turned out in a hurry to meet demand. And the man whose technique as well as images he stole banks a few mil a year creating works which will retain value 100 years from now. That is the difference and no marketing wiz team can change it.

I think this is the main complaint about Kincade. Art is more than being able to get it into every home and meet minimum sales goals. Sales do not necessarily equate substance.

But you'll never hear me say this to anyone wanting to frame a piece. I follow Ron's lead: You'll be so thrilled with the finished piece!

[Framar]

Hey, bad advice can come from any direction. I remember a frame in DECOR several decades ago that was described as being covered with actual growing moss! The only recommended maintenance was a "a light mist of water, every couple of months." I remember being astonished at this, even back then when I was young and stupid.

[AnneL]

Actually, I agree with Ron and the rest. I never turn down framing some thing just because I don't personally care for it. It's not hanging in my home, after all. And I don't think Kincaide is any detriment to the framing industry, whether or not you like his art. He at least raises the awareness of framing and art in general.

It is bad DIY advise that leads people to attempt harmful or improper framing practices on their own that I have a problem with. Not only does it mean that I won't be doing that job and earning that money, it is likely that eventually it will wind up in a frame shop when the damage starts to show for "fixing". These are the kind of things that usually turn into nightmare projects that you can never charge enough for to cover your costs.

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Anne LeBouton

[Mitch]

Some food for thought.

I personally would like to see Martha's advice applied to all Kinkade work. It irks me that, when a work of art is created, the value of the materials used to create art becomes less than the original value of those materials.
Should we use valuable natural resources to frame a Kinkade?

[MikeB]

20 years ago I too probably would have thought that Kinkade's work was art and may have even bought one. Thanks to my wife (an art major) I now know what real art is. I'm proof that you can teach good taste.

Don[/B][/QUOTE]

We can tell that you don't like the man's art. But, for you to say that it's not art is a bit ignorant. Who is to say what is and isn't art? It's all in the eye of the beholder. I am not a fan of his art, but I couldn't do better, and I won't slam him for doing what he's apparently good, or even great at. And no offense, but just becuase your wife is an art major does not mean that she knows what great art is. What it does mean is that she has knowledge about various art and artists, thats it, nothing more.

Mike

[Lance E]

A question for those who oppose selling this Kinkade stuff, do you gain more sales from not doing so? If you reply in the affirmative, what is the source of the information?
Our business is to put work in front of the customer for them to choose, if we make that choice for them are we in business? I could walk into our showroom right now and remove close to 25% of our stock because I don't like it, would I? Heck no.
The business practices don't sound all that unfamiliar to me, as licensed dealers for various brands of cameras and associated products the contracts are all fairly similar.