Cassese C S 299M Ultra "V" Nailer : Problems and Solutions.

[JRB]

I purchased a Cassese 810 "V" nailer about twenty years ago. It was and is a great "V" nailer that we still use to this day.

Based on my happy experiance with Cassise, I decided to purchase a new Cassise CS 299M Ultra "V" nailer from Active Sales Company. The machine looked great and seemed to work just fine for a few months, then the problems started. At first I didn't think it was any big deal, every now and then the wedges would not stack properly, just slide in beside each other. Then the big "blow out" day occured, a fitting in the machine that holds the air lines together poped loose. We called active and they sent us a replacement part for around thirty or fourty dollars. The machine was down about a week.

Three months later, the new part failed. I called Active and was told that that paticular part was defective, and I could send it back for a new replacement part, that was also defective, and would need replacing in a few months. I talked to a manager at Active and told him I felt that the whole machine was defective. He explained to me that Cassise purchased that part from another vendor and they did not feel it was a problem with the machine at all, just the part. He agreed to send me several replacement parts to solve the current problem and to have a backup on hand for when it failed again. Downtime was another week.

I then noticed my employee was not even using the new CS 299, but the old CS 810. I asked her why and she explaind that the new machine won't stack "V"nails properly and she could hear it leaking air. She has better vision than I do, so she is the one who has to change the defective part in the machine. She told me before the part blows, she could always hear the tell tale air leak.

So here is what I have, a $4000.00 Cassise CS 299 Ultra that is just sitting in my shop, not being used, taking up space. Cassise feels it is not their problem because they do not manufacture the part that is defective. Active Sales tried to help as much as they could without taking the machine back for a refund or sending a reresentative to my store to help solve the problems. Active Sales claims Cassise is working on getting a replacement part that will solve the problem but I havn't heard a thing about it yet, and that was several months ago.

Myself, I think that the CS 299 M Ultra is a defective machine that should be recalled by Cassise and repaired properly, before any more are sold. I also think Active Sales should have warned me of this problem before selling me that machine, since they were fully aware of it at the time.

I would not recomend the Cassise 299 M Ultra to anyone and would suggest you look at other machines, before throwing your money away on this lemon.

John

[jframe]

"That was several months ago?"

You paid $4,000 for a new machine and it doesn't work?...and they won't take it back? Good grief. How do our suppliers get away with that? You sure couldn't get away with it at the local power tool store.

We have a Caassese 910 Sr. and I thought the new Cassese was suposed to be a "dream machine", I'm glad you posted this, Jim.

[Emibub]

John, I'm sorry to hear of your trouble but at the same time I am glad to hear the 810 holds up. I just purchased a used one and the consensus from all my sales reps is it is the best one ever made by Cassese. I would be dumbfounded if they didn't work with you on this one.

[Marc Lizer]

John,

I have the same exact problem as you.

And I mean THE SAME.

It’s actually kinda freaky how much it is the same, but I ended up a totally different place.

I had 2 810’s.

I bought the 299M from Active, and sent out the 2 810’s for complete overhaul for backup use or to sell.

We were using the 299 and we had the same blowout.

I look into the machine and all I see is an extra tube, and I have no clue where it was before.

They told me where the thing was supposed to go. I shoved it back in and was good to go.

Thursday (as in the day before you made this post, kinda freaky huh?) I had the same thing happen. But this time it wouldn’t hold when shoved back in, and when held in place it hissed.

At that time I got that same story you got from Active:
Outsourced part, and the vendor has sold a part that previously was good, but this batch is not. And they (only the bad part) are failing. The first blowout was early in the failure (higher use by us, so it happened faster), so it was not known the part was bad. And now they do, as when yours went south.

The replacement part was UPS’d and here in the morning. (for those who are wondering what the part looks like: if you took a white eraser and cut it in 4 pieces, it is the size of one of them. It has two holes in the end, and two allen screws in the side.) The red hose is the only one that has the problem.

John,
It took 5 min the change the part, and it is done by feel and not sight. It is actually not a killer.

Now, I also had the same problem of the employees wanting to use the 810’s even though the 299 was in fine working shape.

I had a heart to heart.

They admit the 299 makes a better join.
Is easier to use, and faster. And a far better machine. But after using the 810 for so long they have grown attached to them. The know each particular 810's little idiosyncracies.

John,
As for the 299 not performing? They know how to make the machine (the 299 or 810) join poorly. As will your employee.

They almost feel like they are cheating on the old machine by liking the new machine. So it is easy to make the new machine seem to work bad, so the old 810's don't get put out to pasture. It is even done unconciosly.

It’s just familiarity with the old and fear of the new.

The 299m is a kick*** machine no matter how you slice it.

As for Active/ Cassiese.

I think this part is a problem.

I think Cassiese should address it. How, I do not know. Any ideas?

I had another Active experience recently: About a week after the 810’s came back from overhaul, I plugged them in just to make sure they were working well (in case they sell).
When I did one made an awful hissing from that black solid box inside the machine.

I called Active, and they said that black box it the main thing that makes the machine go. And that hissing is a bad thing.

Upon inspection I found a hairline crack had developed in the block. When, I do not know, but it was there now.

Active sent me the block (they called it a manifold). It took about 20 min to change.

I will call Active on Monday and find out exactly when they found out the part on the 299's was bad.
I will put in a call to Cassiese and ask them what the *$&@ (pardon my French) they are planning to do about this.

If there are other folks hitting this problem with the 299 post them here. We can’t get a solution if we don’t know how big the problem is. And how many upset customers there are.

I think I was handled well, and am not upset about the machine or Active.

John has an issue (with good reason) and it should be addressed.

Our stories are so close. Are there any other Cassiese 299 stories out there?

[JRB]

Marc, thanks for your input. I'm not so sure about the psychosomatic aproach to the use of the 299. I and my employee used the 299 for about three months before the stacking problems started, just about the first time of the blown tube. I honestly liked the 299 better and still do, however I do not want to use it if the tube is going to blow out or I'm joining a frame that has to be stacked. Consequently the 299 just sits there, unused.

I am wondering if the lemon law applies to machinery purchased in California, I am going to research that angle. Frankly, I would rather return it and get another, more reliable machine to replace it.

How much do you want for your 810s?

John

[Bill Lackner]

John,

I too have a 299 Ultra M. Although I don't hear hissing (after years of woodworking tool exposure in the 70's & 80's without ear protectors, the hissing may be there...I just don't hear it), I do notice the unit doesn't stack the way it should. Has there been any listing of serial numbers of units that are defective? If not, can someone get such a list?

Besides the stacking problem, I notice the clamping action often pushes the fence(s) out of square (to the back of the profile) which results in less than satisfactory joins. Other than these issues, the machine has been pretty good. I've been using it for about a year & a half.

[Jana]

Thanks so much for starting this topic, John. When I went to work yesterday, my boss was back to building frames with nails and clamps. She said a part had broken in the Cassese. We have a CS 89 model.

I said that there was something on The Grumble about a Cassese part and later copied this thread and gave it to her today. Sure enough, it's the same part you're talking about.

We've had the Cassese about 6 years and the first limit switch (or EOT switch) lasted that long. About 4 months ago, she had to replace it, and now it's broken again.

Thanks Marc, for your help, too. Active Sales has been great and is going to help us out.

[ilinkah]

Wow, glad I dropped in to this post. Between having only one source of parts and the problems, these machines sound like not a great choice! Still looking for a used underpinner. Thanks to all who reply here, I always find it helpful.
Mark @ Seacoast, NH

[jframe]

Ilinkah,

The Cassese is still a great machine. We have a 910 Sr. since they first came out...at least 15 years. Sure, we have had to replace parts, but you're going to have that with any machine that gets a decent amount of use. When we need parts the LJ Tech Center gets them to us pronto. The problem JRB has is a different story, go ahead and get a used Cassese. It will serve you well.

[Jana]

Our Cassese is good. It's just the one part that is causing the trouble. I think the company will figure out what is wrong with the part and redesign it.

I've never had an appliance at home that hasn't broken down and needed to be repaired or replaced. (Also, think about cars!) I figure any machine that gets a lot of use is going to need fixing once in a while. It's just that in this case the turnaround time for replacing a part and having it break again was rather short. I'm confident the company will do what it can to rectify the situation.

[JRB]

Jana, I'm not so sure about Cassise taking the problem seriously enough to bother doing anything.

They have been fully aware of the problem for over a year now, yet absolutly nothing beyond lip service has occured. Why should they bother, their machines are selling like hot cakes and they can get over thirty dollars for a replacement part for every machine, roughly every three months. One hundred machines = $3,000.00 per quarter, or $12,000.00 extra dollars per year. Where is the incentive for them to take care of the problem? I'm just talking about the defective air line hook up, what about the stacking problems? Perhaps all this publicity they are getting on The Grumble could encorage them to consider actually doing something about it.

Is it possible for someone from Cassise to give a response here on The Grumble?

John

[JRB]

Active Sales called me a little while ago, I talked to one of the managers, his name is Clay. He wanted me to make it clear that Active Sales sent me the the replacement parts at no charge to me, they just charged me for the first one and will give me full credit for it when I return it to them. He also addressed the stacking problem by stating that if you want to stack, you should only use hardwood "V" nails. I will give that a try if I can find some. Clay also said since I made this post a lot of folks have been calling him up for "free" replacement parts. If you purchased your machine from Active Sales, they will replace the part for a new one when you send them the defective part. Clay also told me they are close to a solution about this part any day now. He also said the responsibility for the part belongs to a company called Parker, and that they are a huge conglomerat that do not have this part at the top of their priority list. I disagree with that completly, the responsibility belongs to Cassise, not Parker, not Active Sales, although Active Sales said they have invested a lot of time and effort trying to get it resoved.

John

[Bill Lackner]

"if you want to stack, you should only use hardwood "V" nails."

That's odd. It's my understanding the steel used for both soft & hardwood type Cassese "v" nails is the same. The difference is the edge of the softwood nail is blunt cut (to prevent splitting); the hardwood edge is a bit sharpened to penetrate the wood easier. I assume the tendency of a sharpened edge would be to slide next to an existing nail and not push it up.

[jframe]

My old Brevetti nailer would stack as many as I wanted. Most of the time I have a problem stacking with the Cassese using either hard or soft wood.

[John Gornall]

Now this is a point I would like a better understanding of - I understood that the hardwood vee nails were blunt.

I have a box of 7mm nails that I keep just for difficult, small hardwoods. I was sold them as Hardwood vee nails - they are very blunt and they work well.

[Bill Lackner]

After thinking about it, I got the blunt & sharpened edge mixed up. The blunt edge is better for hardwoods and for this reason it should be better at stacking.

[FrameItEtc]

tongue.gif I'm sure glad i invested in a Mitre-Mite VN42... i had absolutely NO problems since i purchased it about 2 1/2 years ago. I still luv it. :D

[Marc Lizer]

I would really like to not see this thread Frankenthread.

Post Cassese problems (this problem or other related) : yes.

Problems with other machines/brands: No.

Praise for a Cassese machine/brand: Sure, but by no means needed.

Praise for other machines/brands: By no means needed on this thread. I don't think that is fair.

thanks,
marc

[CharlesL]

I personally think that if a machine, v-nailer, car,TV or otherwise, has a brand name on it, in this case Casesse, they, the manufacturer, shoud be responsible for fixing the d@mn thing!

Y'all might disagree, but if I buy a Sony TV, and it has a defective Brand X capacitor in it, I expect Sony to fix it. I don't expect to have to take it up with Brand X, nor would I expect to have to replace the capacitor myself.

If you put YOUR name on something, ie: a framed piece of art work, you ought to be responsible for fixing it. What if one of us framed a signed Van Gogh, and the corners came apart? We wouldn't refer the customer to Van Gogh to get it fixed!

[JRB]

I want to keep this active and at the top until Cassise gets this problem resolved. Active Sales said the solution would be coming any day now, so I'm sure this won't be going on for long.

John

[JRB]

Well, the part blew out once again. We replaced the part a few months ago, used it for about a month, then the tell tail air leak started, so Mary, my employee, quit using the machine.

When I talked to Clay at Active Sales, he asked me if the machine was working at that time. I told him that it was, but my employee did not want to use it because she could hear the air leaking and she knew that the part was going to blow again. Not wanting this to happen while she was in the middle of joining a custom frame, she prefered to use the old 810 instead. ]

Today she was using the Cassise 299M Ultra to join ready mades, a few minutes ago, the part blew out in the middle of the first frame. I told her we still had another part to fix it with, she said " What's the point? It's just going to blow out again in a few weeks."

Clay had told me he could send me the parts to repair the machine, but he said he could not restore confidence in the machine if nobody would use it. I guess I'm wondering why I should have confidence in a machine that continually breaks down.

John

[Marc Lizer]

What is your air pressure on the machine?

[fttom]

I don't own one of these machines. My underpinner is of a different manufacturer; however, you folks seem to me going about this the hard way. When I have a real problem with a piece of equipment or appliance, I can't get it fixed the first time from the people that I bought it from, and they are giving me something that I consider the royal runaround, I go right to the top. The guy in the field may be the one that you are bugging to try and fix your problem, but he's not the guy with the power to make the deicisons. I usually write to the president of the company. That usually brings instant response. It brings the problem to the attention of the person who CAN make decisions, the person who CAN make it everyone's top priority, and get it fixed. If ALL of you who have one of these machines wrote to the president of Cassese complaining that they are not standing behind their machine, and that this part is a piece of junk, I'll almost guarentee that you'll get it fixed very soon. That usually gets things jumping. Try it! ;)

[JRB]

Marc, you may have just hit the nail on the head. Mary is changing the blown part as I type this. We will check the pressure as soon as it's installed.

Susan, Marc has already made contact with Cassise in France and you are right, going to the top is the best way to handle a problem, most of the time, but not all. Try taking a problem to Peter La Marche. I decided to post it on The Grumble because that's pretty much the same thing, going public will usually get to the top REAL fast.

O.K. Marc, that may have been the problem, the pressure was up to nine bars when it should have been at seven, thank you very much, we will try it at the proper pressure, for a change. I wonder if that could be the problem in all the other machines that are blowing out.

John

[fttom]

Sorry, Guys! I had just been reading about all of ya'll's problems, and trying to figure some way to help, and didn't see where anyone had used my favorite solution.(I'm really a frustrated engineer, at heart.) You're right. Going public here, with the problem should do the trick. If I had a faulty part in a very expensive machine, I sure wouldn't want it plastered all over The Grumble. :rolleyes:

[Jana]

We got another replacement part today from Active Sales. I think it will be OK, because the section that kept failing is now threaded. Yippee. Our Cassese is up and running again.

[JRB]

The power of The Grumble never ceases to amaze me.

A Mr. Barnier Sebastien from Cassise in France called me this morning, he has a replacement part that will solve the blowout problem, I guess it is the same one Jana recieved. He also addressed the stacking problem as well. He spent quite some time on the phone with me going over the machines locking mechanisim. It turns out that my machine was missing a small rubber " Brake" that prevents the arm from moving while you are firing V nails. Mr. Sebastien is going to call Active Sales and see what can be done about replacing these parts.

I also made the suggestion that Cassise re-introduce the Cassise 810, however,that did not seem like such a great idea to him. He seemed to think the 299M Ultra is a much better machine. I would probably agree with him, if it would function as advertised. Perhaps with these new parts it will. I will keep everyone posted.

John

[JRB]

Clay, from Active Sales called me a while ago and said he would be coming to my shop on Wed. to install the defective or missing parts. I'm looking forward to using this machine on a regular basis once again.

John

[JRB]

Clay, from Active Sales came in this morning and replaced the missing or defective parts, cleaned up the machine and gave us a class on maintaining not only the Cassise 299 but just about all our other machines as well. Clay spent serious time with us and was extreamly helpfull. I am going to change the heading on this thread to be less offensive to Cassise and to Active Sales. I don't want to change the threads content because I feel it is a good learning tool to a lot of people. It has taken me from being angry and fed up with a piece of equipment to a happy conclusion with the help of Grumblers, Active Sales and Cassise in France. Clay also asked me to point out that the time frame between part failure was not three months, but six months. I told him I'm sixty years old and six months seems like three months, to me, it's going fast.

John

[S.Barnier]

Dear customers,

Two problems have been pointed out in this web site regarding the CS299Multra. It was mentioned that the machine is sometimes not able to stack, and that a sensor is failing very often.
Regarding the sensor problem, we reported the problem to our supplier who is now supplying us a different part. The sensor is physically different and will solve the problem.
Regarding the stacking problem, it can be due to several things:
- Bad stapling parameters: the chosen position for the wedge inside the molding is not correct and the molding is moving during the joining (make sure that the plunger will be on a stable surface)
- Bad selection of wedge: make sure that the hard wood wedge is used when necessary (for example if you can’t print the molding with your nails). A soft wood wedge pushed inside an hard wood will not stack vertically (you might see the wedge not vertical inside the wood) and could break inside the wood.
- Locking system full of grease: underneath the table is a sort of piston which will secure the stapling distributor position. This piston is moving a level holding a rubber which is in contact with the table to lock against it. This rubber should be checked: it must be free of oil (clean the underneath of the table) and in good conditions (not worth, damaged or missing).
- Commanding button of the locking mechanism unscrewed: make sure that the small black button on top of the handle is well tighten on the bar supporting it. If not, the spring under it will fail and the machine will release the locking system during joining.

As each case needs a special attention, we are ready to answer people who had these mentioned problems. Our customers can use this e-mail address: sbarnier@cassese.com to get more technical information or help.

We greatly appreciate the help provided by the site “the grumble” which is giving us a feed-back of our customers. We feel really involved with quality of our products and have worked to get our 299ultra machine even more reliable than the CS810. The CS299ultra is obviously able to stack (and more easily than with the CS810)and it holds a much more powerful clamping system than the CS810.
So feel safe! Use the CS299, it will really serve you well for years and in case of any problem, use my e-mail address, we will help you as soon as possible.

[S.Barnier]

Just to make things more clear. I’m the author of the previous message. My name is Barnier Sébastien. I’m managing the technical service of Cassese France. Like I said, I will keep in contact with our customers, they simply have to use the e-mail address: sbarnier@cassese.com.

[CharlesL]

Monsieur Barnier,
We don't own a Cassese, but hope to some day. It is gratifying to know that this level of support is available from the manufacturer when a problem arises.
I have been told, and have read, numerous times on the Grumble, that the Casesse is a fine machine, no matter the model. We will be buying a Casesse when we DO grow to that point

Merce bien!

[jframe]

It is so good to hear a vendor address a openly address a complaint and resolve it. It is a great lesson in how to turn a negative situation into positive PR.

Cassese has resolved the problem and proved that it is the fine company framers thought it was when they purchased the machine.

Did you know that Mr. Cassese received the 1986 PPFA Award of Recognition for Innovation?

[John Gornall]

Monsieur Barnier,

I would like to have a good technical understanding of Vee nails, types available, design differences of the types, where to use each type, problems and how to solve them by using different nails etc. Perhaps you would be the person to write this and post here in the Grumble or have this published in one of our trade magazines.

Thank you.

[Clay Simpson]

Hi All,
I am the Clay you see referred to here in previous posts. I would like to thank all of you that took the time to either post or call and talk about the problems you were having with your machines. I would also like to thank Sebastien and Cassese for their continued support. It is great to represent a line of equipment that we know we have the full support of the manufacture.

Problems like this will happen and I am glad that this one is behind us now. Parker, the manufacture of the part, redesigned the part like Cassese asked them to do and we now have them available. The timing was perfect because the day I heard about the original post was also the day Sebastien told us the part was available.

Active Sales takes these and all customer complaints very seriously. We will always do whatever we can to make our customers happy. It is sure alot easier with the help of people like Sebastien and Alain Cassese. We are scheduling a trip to visit Cassese for more technical training so that we can continue to offer the best service in the business. I can't wait as they are great people to work with. (Going to France has nothing to do with it of course. ;) )

Regarding the request for more information about nails and such, I wrote an article for Picture Framing Magazine in the February 2002 issue on "Tips for Joining Frames With Your Underpinner" that covered most of what you are looking for. It may be a bit long for this forum. If anyone would like the info you can call or email me direct or if someone has a suggestion on where to post it, I will do my best to share the finer details regarding nail selection, placement and other nuances to help you get the best possible corners.

Again, thanks everyone!

Clay Simpson
Active Sales Company
www.ActiveSalesCo.com (http://www.ActiveSalesCo.com)
800-937-2255

[Marc Lizer]

It will be good in the Tips of the Framing Trade (http://thegrumble.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=6&DaysPrune=1000&submit=Go) froum.

There is more that enough space for the full text.