threat of a lawsuit

[beerhere]

i'll make this a short story if possible. Today I was threatened with "I'll see you in court". Our relationship began in august with the simple agreement of providing framing service to a local photo studio that was opening up and needed showroom pcs to display their work and promote a framing service also. We agreed to do the work at cost plus labor to cover our overhead. We billed them and after much pleading (admonish me for not getting a deposit but I had worked with her b-4 and trusted her)recieved approx. 1/2 of the payment. Things went on,we framed for them,they paid us for current work done. We pushed for payment on past due,they hemmed and hawed. Finally we took action after last week when they refused to pay any of the past due stating it was a 50/50 partnership and like any partnership each party makes a contribution. A surprise to us! We met, we talked, we couldn't agree with their point of view nor they ours. So I am now holding on to 10 pcs until we get paid in full! We have a simple 1yr. contract that we drew up which she signed back in sept.which stated what our terms are (the term "partnership" is not in there). Well, today she had an employee call and ask when the finished work will be delivered and after she heard what we're doing she abrubtly got on the line and said "i'll see you in court". My question is this... has anybody else had a similar situation and if so, how did you handle it? And does anybody think we are barking up the wrong tree by holding on to their art?

[Marc Lizer]

While "The G" is good for a great many things, this is a question where you need an expert. Pay the money for a Lawyer.

But I will say two things:

This is where being a member of PPFA/PMA would be of help. While they do not have a lawyer referal (yet), or a lawyer on staff dedicated to answering such questions, they do have a lawyer who is expert in problems that tend to arise for PMA and hence, PPFA members. He teaches as the PMA/PPFA shows. He has written books on the subject avail thru the PMA bookstore. While he is not on tap, as a member, from what I understand, he can be contacted thru the correct chanels, if needed.

That said:
My take is:
You can't withold work inhouse, for nonpayment of previous obligations, but you can refuse to take in new work untill the previous outstanding debt is paid.

Meaning: You should have refused to take in the new work untill the old was paid. If she is willing to pay for the new work upon pickup, you are obligated to surrender it. The old debt is another issue.

OK. So I understand you were at a different place when you took the new work. And the situation has changed, and that is why you feel the need to have leverage. But you are pulling at the wrong branch. Instead of pulling at the branch, it should be you, standing at the base of the tree and cutting it down. Inotherwords. Give her the work (with payment in full of that order). Hire a lawyer, file a suit and be proactive.

Chances are a letter or two from the lawyer will resolve the monies in dispute.

I am guessing you are hesitant to go legal, because you want to keep on doing work for them.

Is the work that good? Is the money worth the pain and heartache? Refer them to your best competition. Let them get eaten up and hollowed out on the inside from such sour dealings.

But like I said, any opin here is not worth legal beans. It is just speculation. And may actually be the wrong course of action. I am a framer and not a lawyer. When people want things profesionally framed, they come to me. When they want to get out of being framed, they go to another profesional. A lawyer.

However, before you make these calls. Have you tried a collection agency? Some work flat fee. Others work on a percent of the action.

Just another avenue to go trapseing down.

Good luck, and happy hunting (for your money)!

[Marc Lizer]

One other thing:

www.prepaidlegal.com (http://www.prepaidlegal.com) .

go to: http://www.prepaidlegal.com/newCorp/product/plan.html

click Minnesota .

Look at the Biz plan, ( http://www.prepaidlegal.com/scripts/odb-get?wit_Template=GENERIC_CONTENT&Session=0&Content=FUNCTION&Function=REGION&Dest=P_BOLSP_L&Region=MINNESOTA ) and the Telephone access plan.

just another thought.

[beerhere]

Marc: thank you for the advice I'll call ppfa today and keep you updated. Saw you in Las Vegas but didn't get a chance to introduce myself, you were in deep conversation at the 3M booth!

[JPete]

Marc always has good advice. I have this tendancy to always check newbies profiles. Several, some old and new, have homepages which do not load. Yours did not. you are missing the www. It is there, but I had to type in the url with the www. It would be a good idea to check any other places you have it posted incorrectly. Just one of my pet peeves! Good luck with your non-partner partner.

[JRB]

The real lesson here is, stay away from "deals" that other people have to promote your business in order to get low cost or free framing, decorating restaurants & bars, offices, etc.

Photographers are notorious for concocting schemes to get free work from us. I doubt if I have ever gone through a year without some photographer wanting to "help me out" with their latest money making idea. When I was younger, I bit on a couple of them & of course I never made a dime from the deal that came close to compensating me for my discounted work.

This is one of those times in life you have to learn to say " Thank you, but NO ".

John

[Jim Miller]

Marc's right -- talk to a lawyer pronto.

In Ohio it would be illegal to withhold customers' property for lack of payment. If we agree to do the work for $X, and if the customer pays it, then *that* order is not an issue, no matter what came before.

Likewise, as renters in Ohio we can not hold out rent money if the roof leaks, etc. We agreed to pay the rent, no matter what.

In both cases, according to my lawyer (get your own, though), our best hope would be to negotiate a settlement between us and our lawyers. Our last recourse would be to sue the one who owes us, and let a judge decide.

Legal matters get complicated enough as it is. When one matter is drawn into another previous, separate matter, things can get waaaay out of hand in a hurry.

[Framerguy]

I believe that some of the postings regarding withholding current work for payment of past work being illegal are correct. I went through a similar thing with an artist who I "contracted" to frame a number of pieces for him a few years ago. I too gave him the benefit of the doubt and didn't get a down payment or request full payment after each part of the framing was completed. He ran up a bill of over $15,000 before I cut him off and impounded all of his prints and finished products until the bill was paid. I DID hire a lawyer and took him to court where the judge told me I was within my legal rights as a business owner to impound the materials for lack of payment. He was going to set up a court date when the artist and his family disappeared! Locked up their apartment one day and disappeared. I traced them to a P.O.B. in Louisville, KY and got no further than that.

So now I have 2000 prints of Elvis Presley along with over 200 fully framed prints in my inventory. (Anybody want some REALLY GOOD Elvis prints real cheap??)

FGII

[Frame Harbor]

This is only a test.
Cornel

[beerhere]

Sorry JPete, I've been monitoring the grumble for well over a year and framing for 22 years. My experience in internet stuff is passable and laughable to most although I am learning
slowly. I didn't have time to call ppfa/pma yesterday but will do so today. The way I look at the situation is similar to a mechanic that works on a car,the owner doesn't pay the bill, the mechanic keeps the car in lieu of payment.