breakdown charges?

[Leslie S.]

We are constantly getting frames in for repair (fell off the wall, one or two corners separated), or rematting , or just plain old changing out the pictures. This can be very time consuming, especially removing the old adhesive/backing paper/cleaning old glass/etc...Unless it is really old, we are bad about not adding a charge for " breakdown" . I am determined to quit giving my time & energy away. Do any of you other Grumblers charge for this, and if so how much? Do you get any complaints from your customers if you do?

Leslie S.

[Ron Eggers]

Leslie,

I have a series of aggravation charges built into my POS software that allow me to multiply my normal fitting charge by different percentages for things like "unfitting," cleaning a customer's glass, lining a really scuzzie frame and other similar extra-labor jobs. The multipliers range from 1.5 times to 3 times normal and still require me to make a judgment call when I examine the job and price it. Anything that requires more than 3 times a normal fit charge, like rejoining bad corners, becomes a separate line item. For those, I keep a range of typical charges and, again, make a judgement call for individual cases.

Didn't they teach you that at Rice?

[GUMBY, GCF]

Hey isn't this why we call it custom framing? No two jobs the same? Judging time to unfit and refit an old depends on too many different things just to say 16x20 $18.95 You have to watch your time and how fast you can do each task that will best tell how much. A 3 year old 16x20 may take you 20 min. to do. That would be 20 min. of shop labor. But in the same breath 50 year old 16x20 may take you 75 min. to do. This ability comes with time after you have done a few 50 year old frames you kinda know the worst and the best. Then you tell your customer Btwenn $18.50 and $59.50. depends on what condition when we take it apart. We try to give an estimate and explain if nothing out of the ordinary takes longer it will be this price. If they insist on a actual price we charge them up front for the unfit which is the same as our normal fitting charge. then after it has been taken apart we give them the cost to reassemble., or call them later to let them know the actual cost. Remember Fitting & unfitting is how fast you can do the job and one person maybe able to do it in half the time it take you so don't charge his fees you may end up not making any money. alot of framers you will find don't charge to take things apart that they are going to reframe but some do.
Jim
OHIO

[FramerRandy]

Leslie,

I do something like the others have commented. I have a "special Fitting" charge to act as a reminder :rolleyes: to evaluate the extra work that needs to be done.

Also, if I'm re-fitting into a customer's frame/glass, I always charge this "special fitting".

Just my 2 cents worth

[Framerguy]

Leslie,

I have a teardown charge built into my POS software that is based on .60¢ per united inch. So a 16x20 frame would cost the customer $21.60 to tear it down and remove the contents. I also have a couple of fitting charges also based on united inches and I use the appropriate one to fit new frames, re-fit existing newer frames (including removing the old ATG), and refitting older frames (which is the most expensive to account for any offbrand frames or those without a flat face on the reverse to mount the dust cover).

As Jim alluded, any additional labor must be costed out on an individual basis, ie., that old frame that needs to be rejoined has to be torn apart, remitered, and rejoined and the old nail holes, in most instances have to be filled.

I can add any little labor charge that I can imagine in my program to account for these various labor tasks but I usually add them in at the bottom of the workorder where there is a space for costing out anything that hasn't been accounted for in some other operation.

Framerguy

[Leslie S.]

Ron,
My greatest fear is that Rice will find out what a poor money maker I am and revoke my diploma.

Leslie

P.S. Actually, I have a chart of charges for really antique frames; I live in a town with lots of restored Victorians and antique stores and do lots of these. My problem is that due to serious family illness I am having to take more time off than usual (in fact, ANY time off is unusual!) and I am trying to come up with a relatively simple way for the others to charge for the "younger" type of re-do (in Fullcalc). One problem I run into is opposition to charges of this sort by the client. I guess I feel the need for a snappy reply to the dreaded "That's ridiculous!"...Ron? Anyone? :D

[Sherry Gray]

When someone brings us a refit, I preface quoting the charge by describing the labor involved. By the time I finish that process, the customer thinks the charge is reasonable. I have separate charges for fit, fit and 1/2, fit mirror, and refit. And one can always add on an aggravation charge if needed (but I normally use that if the customer is aggravating, not the frame!).

[Meghan MacMillan]

I don't try very hard to persuade the "That's ridiculous" crowd to let me get their crumbly backing paper, brittle glue, bug carcasses, dust and spores all over my counter and refit. My own response is usually along the lines of, "Sorry I couldn't help you. Here let me get the door."

However, the owner of one shop I worked in had a gift of relating to the cost to whatever business the customer was in or knew best. Father was a butcher? "Well if someone bought meat across town and brought it to him would he grind it for free?..." On and on and on till the client would practically be asking "Are you sure $75 is enough?"

[tnframer408]

Read this in the morning today and at 4 p.m. Ms. Cheapo came in with about 15 little 4 x 6s, her own mats, and wanted her mats replaced in these old frames and tape the mats to the little penny postcards in the frames.. Quoted her $150 explained that I had to tear apart, clean, put mat in with tape, reseal, etc. She thought I was joking and stormed out saying "I'll do it myself"

All I said was "have a nice day"

Go figure tongue.gif tongue.gif

[GUMBY, GCF]

HA!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha!ha! :D :D :D :D :D
Could not resist you made my day and as you see my day is all but over.
Jim
OHIO

[Audrey Levins]

My fiance's old boss had a theory on this sort of thing. He had a very busy shop and never refused to do any job. He just priced it so outrageously that the customer was the one who said no.

And sometimes, those really old frames are a nightmare and you just don't feel like doing them....so price up. Way up. And if they say yes, what the heck? You make silly money on it.

Having said that, at my old shop we had an unfit/refit charge that was automatic on any reframing job. Beyond that, we'd charge a half hour to a full hour of labor for it.

And we'd explain to the customer who had issues with it that they are not buying the materials that have the labor built-in to the price, so we have to charge the labor outright.

And if they don't like that.... tongue.gif

[Audrey Levins]

My fiance's old boss had a theory on this sort of thing. He had a very busy shop and never refused to do any job. He just priced it so outrageously that the customer was the one who said no.

And sometimes, those really old frames are a nightmare and you just don't feel like doing them....so price up. Way up. And if they say yes, what the heck? You make silly money on it.

Having said that, at my old shop we had an unfit/refit charge that was automatic on any reframing job. Beyond that, we'd charge a half hour to a full hour of labor for it.

And we'd explain to the customer who had issues with it that they are not buying the materials that have the labor built-in to the price, so we have to charge the labor outright.

And if they don't like that.... tongue.gif

[Curly Grumble]

We have 3 fitting charges;
1) Standard fit(F) = if this charge is $10.00
2) Fit Mat (FM) = then this charge is $15.00
3) Open/refit (ORF = And this charge is $20.00

I've been very satisfied with this and I feel it's an equitable system that covers 99.99% of everything we fit. BTW, the (F), (FM), (ORF) are codes that tell the computer what rate to charge broken down to the square inch. They also tell the framer in the workshop what needs to be done. We also have a time field and a misc. field to add $$$ for really special circumstances.

[bearcat99]

We distinguish between wood and metal frames in our fitting/re-fitting U.I. charges, since metal frames typically take less time. We also have an "extra fit" charge than can be added to the basic charge to deal with oversize or more difficult frames.