Old Vintage Posters--Again

[MerpsMom]

I tried the Search but can't find much on this, and I know it's there. So, I'll just post first.

I have a framer friend who called me for advice. She has a $3,000. old vintage poster to frame. It's 4' x 5', paper glued to linen, has a border of about 1-1/2", been rolled up, and it's probably not quite in square. I told her I'd hinge it to ragboard on Artcare foamboard, use a substantial frame for stability, probably install a wider fillet in the frame lip so as to minimize somewhat the out-of-squareness problem visually, install spacers under that to hold it in place gently, and use UV plexi. That's how I'd do it.

She was referred to a NY "guru" by the seller of the piece, according to her customer, and he told her this:

Trim the linen to make it square. Do not hinge it, just place the plexi on top directly onto the poster. Lay all that on Artcare foam, and pinch fit with points. It's okay to let the art be held directly by the plex, and even if the art moves down and rests on the bottom of the frame, that's okay as well. Says he's been doing them this way for years.

Now: am I a Nervous Nell, is he right on? Am I overly worried about preservation? The whole bucket of advice would make me very skitsy. Help from you guys, please: she needs to do this this week. ( And I know this is in the archives somewhere. :( )

[Kit]

MM - your way sounds better to me. But I'd defer to BogFrame on this one - I think he's done quite a few of these. And I'd be willing to bet he's not the New York guru in question.

Kit

[Rebecca]

Hi MerpsMom -

You are right, guru is wrong.

I think those poster guys are in a little world of their own - can't think of any other paper art that would be backed by linen now. The practice probably evolved from the map industry (e.g. old school room roll-down maps) that were backed with fabric. I don't think Japanese paper backings made it into Western restoration/conservation until the '70's or so, and by then the poster world had already settled on linen.

The poster dealers etc. tend to store their stock rolled, so the framing method of putting the Plexi right on the art might be their way of keeping them flat. I've seen Plexi etched by oxidizing oil based inks though, and think your way is the best and safest.

Rebecca

[MerpsMom]

I need to bring this back up for another answer or two. While surfing in the archives, I encountered Cheryl Crocker's question about whether or not you could pin these posters as you do needleart. Actually, could you just pin it at the top edge after wrapping it over the top of the substrate, then go ahead and finish with spacers holding down the sides and bottom as per above? She also asked about stretching as in an oil, but I wouldn't mind doing the pin thing. I'm concerned that the linen hinges are going to let me down. Please?

[tnframer408]

I'm using Japanese paper hinges, laying the piece flat on 8-ply rag and wrapping the hinge around the rag backing board. Have done many in the past years and not one failed yet. BUT, would rather the hinge fail then tear the piece. also, be prepared for this to be a two person job. these things are big and, while not complex to do, require lots of hands because of their size

Don't know about the pinning thing. Seth, where are you when we need you??

[GUMBY, GCF]

You are right, guru is wrong. So. Yes maybe but this is the way the customer has requested it done. Write it up have customer sign it put a copy in the back of frame and forget it. The fewer there are the more valued they become. Not to mention there are so many reproductions going around. I had a local customer bring in a couple he had bought in Mich. supposedly from some antique dealer. Looked like the same ones I saw at the Atlanta show. But hey I am only a framer you can only tell them the the way you feel it should be done and if they want to take the advice of Guru Framer but want you to do the work. Like I said write down what method you recommend and them sign that they refuse the method and write out how they want it done and have them sign that. If we preserve everything nothing will become valuable. It is like a fire, Say a publisher makes an edition of say 1500 prints he sells 250 and and he has a fire in the warehouse 1250 are destroyed . Booom that print just became sold out not to mention it just bcame an edition of 250 makes it more rare knowing the other 1250 are destroyed. You could also compare it to the Miranda Warning that the police give you when they arrest you.(I was in the criminal justice system) You have a right to an attorney etc. If you talk police can use it. If the police forget to give you the Miranda Warning you can say anything and they can not use it in a court as evidence. (little simplified but you get the point) Well you have a written signed statemnt to what you told the customer.they go ahead and want it done their way not your way. You warned them. bleed for the customers who listen to you but can't afford to do it right. Let the ones who can afford it but don't trust your judgement live with it their choice.
whoops sorry to long.
Jim Ohio

[Ron Eggers]

Originally posted by tnframer408:
Don't know about the pinning thing. Seth, where are you when we need you??Mike, Check your backyard. I'll bet he's out there looking for your peanut butter squirrel bait.

[Bogframe]

Don't mount it in any way. Just lay it flat in the frame and use spacers, or if there's a mat, hinge it. The canvas is there just to give the old, brittle paper strength, and anything you do to it will destroy the value. You can trim the canvas and the barrier paper, but by NO MEANS cut the original paper!