Having a frame shop next to a photographer

[jp]

Interested in Pros and Cons of having a photographer located next to my frame shop. I currently have the space next to me for rent, I have a photographer that is possibly wanting to rent it. I know she does some framing with readymades, not sure how much. I was wondering if it would benefit or hurt my business? Any suggestion?
Thanks

[framah]

Put a stipulation in the lease that she can not sell frames of any kind in her shop. As long as she is "doing some framing with readymades", you will have no "pro" to having her there. Any amount of framing by her means framing you aren't doing.

Agree that you will not do any photography in your store and she will not do any framing in hers.

[jp]

How about offering her a "kickback" for any framing she sends me? Maybe that would make up for the framing she does now, and she doesn't have to do any of the work.

[Rogatory]

The only kickback I would offer is a couple of 'knock your sox off' framing models to hang in her store.

[RoboFramer]

Is this space YOURS to rent out?

[framah]

The hard part of situations like offering her 5% is there is no proof she actually sent them to you and no proof you did their work. She can say she sent you 20 people last month and you might have only done 3. Neither number sounds realistic to the other person in that situation.

I once had a "deal" with a local photog like this and he insisted he sent all of those people to me and I only remember one actually coming in and saying he had sent them to me.

Just have it in the contract that she can't sell any framing or framing related items.

Don't be afraid to turn her down if she doesn't like the terms. I'm sure there are more businesses out there looking for a space to rent. If you look for the right one, their customer base might also be the people you want in your store.

Right now, my next door neighbor sells Meile vacuum cleaners. Anyone who can afford one of those are who I want shopping in my store as well.

[Cliff Wilson]

I have a photo shop/photographer across the street from me. He sells readymade frames, pre-cut mats and does some "framing" using his readymades. I do wholesale dry mounting for him, and sometimes frame or cut custom mats at wholesale prices which he marks up and sells.

He sends people over whenever he can't handle the job and I send retouching and reproduction work his way. I find it a very favorable situation.

If that photographer located somewhere else, you wouldn't get the "readymade" framing jobs anyway. This way you get some of the custom jobs.

There are other neighbors that would be better, but there are many that would be much worse.

I would NOT allow custom mat cutting or custom framing in the same strip though. That should not be a big deal.

[Framerguy]

If you aren't selling ready photo frames, what part of your business would he be impacting to any degree? I would think that somebody who would buy a $10 or $15 readymade for their 8x10 glossy wouldn't consider doing a custom framing for any reason. And you are right next door so, it they were curious about prices on custom framing for their photos, they wouldn't have to travel far to find out. I would make an attempt to come to reasonable terms with the guy if he is going to rent the space next to you if possible.

I have converted more photographers over to custom framing than I care to count and most didn't consider having their customers come to my shop until I showed them how much better a set of hand picked colored mats and a custom frame enhanced their photographs. Once you show them anything better than a white mat in a black frame they become receptive to expanding their concept of framing their work.

Good luck.

Framerguy

[AnneL]

Shortly after we opened our photo studio, a frame shop moved in next us. It proved to be a good match as we sent business each other's way. A year and a half later, the owner decided she didn't want to be a framer anymore and we bought the frame shop. Find out what kind of photography she does. If she is dealing with high end clients, it could work out well for both of you.

[DTWDSM]

It is a business that provides potential customers for you.....sounds better than the empty space that is there right now.

[RoboFramer]

Originally posted by jp:
I have a photographer that is possibly wanting to rent it. That probably answers my question above - sorry - just wanted to be sure you had a choice in the matter.

I wouldn't want a photographer next to me, not RIGHT next to me anyway. I get a lot of work from photographers, be it recommendation from them for jobs they cannot do or from their customers who want better than they can offer and know where to come.

Some photographers around here insist on all their portrait photos going out in their frames and charge a fortune.

But my main reason would be that I sell my own photography (only landscapes admittedly) and we make our own ready-made/photo frames too.

I have a BMW dealership to one side and an estate agent (realtor?) on the other, that works really well.

If I could call some shots on a photographer wishing to move in and it was a toss up between them and something that attracted customers with less disposable income, I might think differently though!

[J Phipps TN]

I would definitly put a stipulation on the frame sales part. What if they really start wanting to add more framing options to thier business, then you would really have a problem. It is your building, if they don't like the arrangement, then they can move on.

It would be a great match, but only if they agree to the framing stipulations. I would go as far as to say no framing! I'm sure that most people would understand that given it's your building and you are running a framing business of your own.

I have a large Pool and Spa place right next door to me. This is the kind of clientele that I want (People with disposible incomes), The only problem with them is that when people are working on thier pools they have an outdoor mindset. They are not thinking about thier walls.

[Sherry Gray]

A photographer opened recently next to my second location... and hung her work with big box readymades. I immediately went over worked a deal. I've custom framed two pieces and used readymades for three pieces, all at no charge, for her to hang in her business. She was simply amazed at the difference. Using a simple order form, she will take orders for me, pay 25% less than retail and thinks I have hung the moon. For more complicated jobs, she will receive the customary 15% commission. Since she has six black and white images on one wall of her shop, I plan to custom frame the other four soon. But for right now, I want her to understand and appreciate the difference in quality and design. I know I have forked out some $ in hopes of getting more business, but that's what it takes. Her photography is good and I think she will do well, especially since she and husband bought and renovated the building and she had clientele prior to opening.

[TheDoctah]

As a photographer, these sorts of topics are always ionteresting to me. I find it amazing to see such a wide variety of opinion here, from those that appear to me to be driven by fear of the unknown to those that have a more balanced outlook to those that seem to embrace the potential for synergy.

It has always seemed to me that photographers and framers ought to have a natural affinity for one another, which is why it always shocks me when photographers are viewed as a threat. The fact is that the vast majority of prints are going to need to be matted and framed. Who wouldn't want to have a ready conduit for such business? If you then consider that photographers talk to each other and for the most part are quite supportive of each other, you'd find that a successful relationship with the photographer next door would likely lead to other photographers using you. We tell each other where we get our prints done (those of us that use labs), where we get our equipment, etc. Naturally we talk about who does our framing and whether it's a good business relationship or not. I include the "or not" in there because word of mouth is a sword that cuts both ways.

Something to consider about the potential for business synergy is the type of photographer that would ostensibly be moving in next door. A portrait photographer will be attracting the type of clients that have disposable income and the appreciation for wall hangings. A commercial photographer, on the other hand, would not likely be very helpful.

It seems to me that business-people in two fields that have such a natural affinity for one another should be able to forge a win-win relationship. And that's really what it's all about. There's little point in a framer providing services for no margin, but neither is there a point in the photographer giving away all of her profits either. It must be win-win. Give a little to get a little. It surprises me that this seems to be radical thought in some circles.

[MollyB.]

I have worked with quite a few photographers and artists. Some of them have gone the cheap route with readymades and some have even tried their hand at a level of custom framing as a convenience to the customers...generally as the quality and reception of their work has risen, they want better quality framing and don't want to (or aren't able to) do it themselves.

I will give them a stack of business cards and ask them for the referrals. The photographer signs their name on the back (so I can keep track of where the referral came from), their customer gets a 10% discount because they were referred and I would give the photographer (or artist) a discount when they brought something in to be framed, too.

I know it sounds like a lot of discounting, but it's never more than 10%. The photographer or artist are helping their customer find a framer that is well regarded (another type of service) and their customer is getting a little incentive to try me out...Then it's up to me to keep them without the discount.

I would have no problem having a photographer next door to me...it will help them learn about how custom framing will add to the perceived value of their work.

[Mike LeCompte CPF]

we have the exact same situation: altho the photographer we have apparetnly buys from a readymade dealer that specializes in photographers.

Our readymades are from othr sources, drop-dead gorgeous, come with linen liners etc and you bet your bippy they're in my front window. His sell for a coupla bucks and mine are way higher.

Don't forget Jay's article I think it was this month in PFM: try to attract the higher-end audience. Cheapy readymades ain't where it's at for us. Higher ends are. Ditto on the photoframes our Hallmark neighbor sells. Burns et. al. for 10 bucks Ours start at 30 to 50 for the same sizes.

Amazing the amoutn of higher end readymade/photoframes we sell and that with the so-called "competition" right next to us