A leading question

[GH]

I am only an occassional visitor to the Grumble so I apologise if this issue has been raised already.

My question is probably more relevant to UK framers but I would value all opinions.

The question is , "Would you, as a Picture Framer, join a trade organisation which has also both your customers and suppliers as members?"

My answer is a very definite No!
What do you think?

George

[EllenAtHowards]

Being a Yank, with little UK experience besides a lovely tour a few years ago (4 countries, 8 days)I would think that any trade group that has customers wouldn't strictly be 'trade'. but then, what do I know? Of course, to some extent, the Grumble fits that category in that we have supplier, retail framer and an occasional consumer chime in. Any time there is such a mix, we all speak carefully (or should) because you never know who is 'sitting next to you'. So my answer is a guarded 'yes', because you never know how life will unfold. It might be to my advantage...

[Framerguy]

Suppliers, yes, customers, no.

Our largest trade organization, the Professional Picture Framers Association, of which you may be a member includes framers and suppliers in its membership. Much of the financial support for special events held by the association comes from suppliers donations, supplies, and monies that are put up for the events.

I can see no benefit to the trade in having customers belong. Why would they want to pay the annual dues to belong to a group that is mostly professional and probably wouldn't be interested in dealing with laymen's questions and concerns within the venue?

I AM assuming that we are talking about an organized trade association and not a casual Q&A forum such as the Picture Framer's Grumble.

Oh, and welcome to the Grumble, George! I hope you enjoy the discussions.

Framerguy

[Jay H]

I'm getting ready to join the homebuilders association BECAUSE my customers are there. The homebuilder isn’t specifically part of the "framing trade".

I can't think of a single framing trade organization that is geared for framers and customers?

I think I would consider how that organization brings the shops and customers together. I don’t know which one your talking about so I have no opinion on that specific one. But if associating with my customers gets me more business, then yes I would likely join.

Carry on.

[GH]

The particular organisation I am thinking of is the Fine Art Trade Guild which has membership of framers, moulding suppliers, publishers, artists and galleries.
They claim to be the trade association for the Art & Framing sector. I think that maybe their umbrella is rather too large to effectively represent the membership.
Maybe there is a case ,as a framer, for belonging to such an organisation but I can't see it - although I am willing to be enlightened.

By the way,I would very much like to talk to anyone who is interested in forming an organisation exclusively for framers and to benefit framers.

george

[Bill Henry-]

George,

Not really knowing the specifics of the organization, I think joining customers and framers and suppliers might be valuable in some instances.

As framers, we are quick to point out the foibles and quirks of our customers. It might be illuminating to have a different perspective. Customers/consumers may see things a lot differently than we do, so we might learn something.

Not me, of course, I’m darn near perfect. smile.gif

[RoboFramer]

Originally posted by GH:
The particular organisation I am thinking of is the Fine Art Trade Guild which has membership of framers, moulding suppliers, publishers, artists and galleries.George,

Hi! a fellow UK member here.

Post this on the UK Framers' Forum (http://estlite.scenes.biz/phpBB2/) too.

If yoo are new to framing JOIN! Also take the GCF tests and the advanced modules too. Most of all, attend local branch meetings.

I was a member once, but now have a couple of issues with the FATG, number one is that it cannot be impartial.

The word 'Framing' or Framer(s) is not included

All of its literature is available to non members

But, if I had a local branch anywhere near me - I would re-join.

To be fair though - publishers, artists and galleries are not what comes to mind when you mention 'customers' Most Grumblers were thinking framing customers.

The FATG's heart is in the right place.

[RoboFramer]

Originally posted by GH:


By the way,I would very much like to talk to anyone who is interested in forming an organisation exclusively for framers and to benefit framers.
I missed that bit - I have asked the question via 'The Picture Business' magazine and got no response.

There is a very vague organisation around the midlands too.

I've got the name ready the.......

Framing &
Art
Retail
Trade
Society

Nice abbreviation eh?

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_15_9.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZNxmk696YYGB)

[GH]

Hi John

Thanks for responding to my post.
There are many aspects of the FATG which I could discuss but I really want to concentrate on whether or not the organisation effectively represents the interests of framers.
Like many framers, a lot of my business comes from artists and galleries.
I find myself in the situation therefore that my "trade organisation" also represents my customers and my suppliers.
I believe there should be an organisation which exists purely to represent the interests of framers.
I haven't ignored your comments about posting in the UK or about GCF - I am prepared to deal with these issues separately but I don't want to go off on a tangent just yet.

Thanks

George

[RoboFramer]

Without big companies to sponsor events and adverise, a National trade body would not even be able to afford a decent magazine. As nice as it would be to have such a thing.

Framers subscriptions are not enough.

By subscribing to all the trade mags that you can, attending meetings, seminars and trade shows, your ear will be pretty close to the ground.

The simple answer to this "whether or not the organisation effectively represents the interests of framers" IMHO is NO! It has bigger spenders to keep sweet, at the expense of telling us who the best and worst are, etc etc etc.


If the main thing you want is shared information.... Welcome to the Grumble!

[BUDDY]

GH;
My honest opinion is that Trade organizations and Forums for the trade should be restricted to the TRADE ONLY.And I have often requested that we here on TFg use real names and Profiles so we could know to whom we are truly speaking. I have conducted lectures for non-trade groups and would do it again. I also am in favor of the PPFA's effort to reach out to the consuming public through their website. The difference being YOU KNOW TO WHOM you are speaking and what you shouldn't say and what needs a special explanation.

I also agree that "publishers, artists and galleries are not what comes to mind when you mention 'customers'" As well as " Most Grumblers were thinking framing customers."

I also wonder if those who would welcome their customers in their Trade organizations and in depth technical discussion ( as here on TFG) would be equally as happy if they found one of these participants who lived near their shop taking in framing in an effort to try out their newly learned information ,even if they eventually became a Established retail framer?

Come to think about it we here on TF have even established a private sector for vendors only since they feel they have some things they don't have in common with Retailers and don't wish to discuss them with us. I also remember an effort on PPFA to establish a select group for retailers who grossed over $ 500,000 per year or more because they had different needs than the smaller shops. I wasn't in favor of that because we are al in the same industry and can learn from one another, However having been a consummer with no industry experience ,I know there are things consummers just don't understand and hearing them would cause them to make false assumptions.
BUDDY