The Smell of Fear in latest Decor article?

[Mike LeCompte CPF]

Read with interest the latest Decor rant on providing free services. Lotsa people replacing glass, broken frames, etc. for free. Now I can understand doing this if it's your fault--faulty hangers, wire not right, etc--but isn't this whole thing going a bit overboard? I mean everyone coming in and you're doing free glass replacements? Or free moulding repairs?

Figure how much your labor costs are. Then calculate how many of these freebies you're providing.

Am I being a curmudgeon on this or does it sound like, once again, we live infear and terror of losing a customer thru doing more freebies than are necessary?

[Lance E]

That seems rather silly, customers often expect replacement glass to cost a fortune! We may as well charge a good part of what they expect...

We found that in our area people tend to want to go to a window/glazing specialist and pay a higher price because they "know" they will have more options. (I am still trying to turn that one around and failing nicely!)

[Jay H]

I can't understand how we could possibly charge for small glass (up to 11x14) or wire?

I mean we spend $1000's of dollars a year to get a warm body to just open our door. Finally somebody comes in and you won't comp them $4 for glass and labor?

I had a lady come in last Christmas with 4 pieces. It was a good order. She wasn't in my computer. I knew she had been in before so I in inquired. She said she came in a few months ago to get glass for a 5x7. I didn't charger her or even ask for her name. She saw a huge WWII map on my wall and thought about a Cuban map her husband has stored away.

I don't know if charging her $12 for a 5x7 glass would make or break the future deal but it certainly wouldn't have left her with the same positive shopping experience.

If it’s not a ready-made, I charge to refit but even that isn’t much of a “money maker”. I never do frame repair for free. That's silly.

[jframe]

Jay, did I misunderstand you? They expect to pay, it's almost an insult to not charge them. Did the lady with 4 pics look needy? Sure, I understand an occasional rewiring for a good customer, but I wouldn't do it for just anybody.

[Janet L]

I'm w/you Jo. If it's a good customer that I see throughout the year, I'm happy to do a small glass replacement or rewiring. Sometimes when I know I have some scrap mat in the back in a certain color, I'll upgrade a small piece to linen/silk if it's a good customer. But I don't give anything away to first time customers. Wait a minute, I take that back...

If they are paying custom framing prices for a couple of pieces and have the third piece w/them that needs to be rewired, I don't charge for that third piece. I think most of us that have been framing for a while can tell who the "moochers" are. When they come in w/broken glass and promise all this "other work" in the future, I don't buy into that ploy. Show me the "other work" first.

However, if giving your time and energy away works for you, then go for it. Everyone has to run their business the way it works for them.

[Jay H]

I should have read the article before I commented. In decor it seems that it was a large piece and required refitting. I can't see how it makes good sense to do that for free. I wouldn't.

I give away 5x7 and 8x10s to anybody for any reason at anytime for any number they want. One day I cut down my glass pile. I collected probably 100 of each size before I quit. It has absolutely no value to me, not even .01. It wouldn’t bother me if a moocher wanted 20 at one time. I'd give it to them and they don't even have to promise future work. Its trash soon to hit the barrel anyway. Why not make good use of it?

This thread did give me an idea. I have decided to take on local school art programs and our local art museum as the primary charities I will support. I might put a container on my counter and tell glass beggar that it's free and if they wanted to pass on the act of kindness, I would appreciate if they would consider a donation to local arts programs. Then I will point to the container.

I’m excited about this idea. I hope it doesn’t swish around in my head until I forget about it.

Carry on.

[DB]

I felt it was going a bit overboard and talk about stretching a subject! We will of course fix any problems for free if we caused them, but if a customer comes in with a broken piece of glass because someone in the house was careless, we charge for our labor and materials. We always offer a 'sympathy discount', but we cover expenses and then some. My feeling is that if we give away too much of our time, people will get the sense that we are charging too much for our regular framing. I want our customers to know without question that our time is valuable.

[Bob Carter]

Shucks, Jay-We "give" stuff away all the time. And we do it on a case by case basis.

Isn't it a nice touch when someone does sokething nice for you? Aren't you more likely to put them in to a "Think of me first" position"

Cheaper, and more effective, than advertising

[Jay H]

"Aren't you more likely to put them in to a "Think of me first" position"

Absolutely.

I remember once when Framesmart helped me out with a computer problem I was having in a very unexpected way. It would now be a bad use of resources for any of the other software companies to court me. It ain't happinin.

The tech end of this trade is booming right now. No matter what widget or gadget that comes out, the odds are much more favorable that I will buy their product. I wonder why?

[JbNormandog]

If I have to take something apart I charge for my time and the new glass, if they mention they need a pice for a tabletop frame at home (8x10 or under) I will give them the glass with a smile and on the few occasions that has happened they have come back with real projects.

Other than that the occasional free hooks or I will wire a piece for someone if it small. If it seems like a "bargain" piece from a Home and bedding store or BB store then I charge them for it. I tell them how they frame cheaply at those places and I cannot guarantee that the wire will hold.

This opens the door to me telling them the pros and cons about what they got and if they have any other framing needs in the future to keep me in mind, and that I will do it to last, and correctly.

[Jim Miller]

There's a practical limit to just about everything, and I think the recommendations of that article exceed the practical limit of giving things away.

When the customer remembers a kindness or a small gratitude, which brings him/her back with more framing business, we win. I consider that kind of giveaway to be a promotional expense and expect to recover the retail price of it many times over. That is practical.

But a standard policy of giving away replacement glass and other products and services of value encourages customers to take advantage of our good nature. How do we recover those costs?

That kind of giveaway de-values our products and services. For example, the customer may reason that if 16x20 glass replacement was free last week, then why are we charging $20 for it today in a new framing job?

A wise old businessman once told me that everything we have to purchase has value, and everything that is free has no value. I don't want any customer to think a product or service in my store has no value. That is what drives my giveaway policy.

[John Ranes II, CPF, GCF]

Originally posted by Wise Old Businessman:
...everything we have to purchase has value, and everything that is free has no value....Do you think this quote would transfer over to the Free Corner Samples thread? ;)

John

[Rock]

Do you think this quote would transfer over to the Free Corner Samples thread?
Only if you have never received any for free. :D

Rock

[mona]

smiles are free at my shop

[Emibub]

I had a tricky round mirror I needed to cut last week. It needed to be 5-15/16 inches, it was going into an antique shaving mirror which was metal and had a very thin lip to hold mirror. Most of what we do has a 1/4 lip with plenty of wiggle room. Between the metal reflecting the rough cut edges and absolutely no tolerance on size I gave up and called an auto glass place for help. He told me he could do it. I went in the next morning and he had even already cut it on specs from our phone call. It was perfect, I asked him what I owed him and he said nothing, he cut it out of scrap. I was floored! I have a broken windshield, guess who I am going to use to replace it?

If somebody comes in needing a glass replacement for a photo frame that requires no fitting I always give it to them. Most of this stuff I pick out of the trash to cut. Just seems like good business to me.

[Mike LeCompte CPF]

OF COURSE we allprovide free wire, eyes, tiny pieces of glass, etc. I'm talking about what that article was discussing; free repairs on larger pieces. And while most of the article had to do with CUSTOMER jobs, what triggered my response was on Sat guy comes in with a stacked moulding job that had fallen and asked what we'd charge to fix. I told him around $100, he asks why, I sez 'cause I charge labor by the hour, he sez he wishes he could work for me, and I sez he doesn't wish he had my overhead.

Just can't see doing abuncha free work, is all

[Dermot]

There has been lots of advice over the years about discounting…..and we all know where that has taken retiling…….

Now Décor are advising that we provide free services …..what will they be suggesting next “free framing”……..

What’s that old saying about a “slippery slope” !!!!!

The mind boggles……

:rolleyes: graemlins/kaffeetrinker_2.gif

[OzDave]

Jay,

Its interesting your donation idea. We have been doing the same thing for some time now. Ours goes towards Rotary Polio or worthwhile charity. Its amazing how many time people will put in more money than what I would have charged in the first place.

We say its our way to support our customers as well as our communities.

[Elaine]

I just read this article last night - I think I need to read it again, because I couldn't believe what I was reading!! If this is the rule of thumb, no wonder so many independents are closing!

I have given away wire, bumpons, picture hangers,foamboard, scrap mat etc., but not labor for a paid employee

I do lots of things for local schools, charity, etc., but charging a fair price for work allows me to be generous in the areas that need it.

I still think I need to read that article again!

my 2 cents

Elaine

[Jim Miller]

Originally posted by Mike LeCompte CPF:
...I told him around $100, he asks why, I sez 'cause I charge labor by the hour, he sez he wishes he could work for me, and I sez he doesn't wish he had my overhead.
Good reply, Mike. You might also have pointed out that the guy who tunes up his car doesn't earn the $80 per hour charged by the dealership's serevice department. And the paralegal who writes up his will doesn't earn the $200 charged by the lawyer who employes him/her.

[Rob Markoff]

I remember as a newbie framer reading every word of DECOR with great interest, and without question, as there was no internet and very few other opportunities for education (this is also before Alice Gibson started the DECOR Learning Centers.)

One BAD idea that I got from DECOR through an article about what someone else was doing, was to offer a discount for orders that were prepaid in full by cash or check at the time of order.

Looking back, these people also probably suggested NOT accepting American Express and Discover cards (another really dumb, stupid suggestion).

We were offering a 5% discount for prepaying with cash or check and my staff was using that gimmick as a closing tool for people who were on the fence about price. Then, a little known framer by the name of Jay Goltz was visiting me and helped me to understand that I was not offering a 5% discount, I was offering a 5% discount on the additional 50% that I was collecting because I WAS TAKING A 50% DEPOSIT on every order. So, it was costing me A LOT of profit that I did not realize.

We discontinued the discount and my staff felt that there was not a SINGLE sale that they lost because of it, so for all those years, we were leaving about $5,000-$7,000 on the table....all because of an "idea" that we saw in a magazine.

[Bob Carter]

Great Observation, Rob

I will say, unfortunately, that I have seen many, many more "dumb" ideas than "great" ideas in Decor.

[Baer Charlton]

If its a 3minute job of wash, and slip into a photo frame...

and they are a local or regular customer

when they ask how much, we tell them "we'll see you when you need real framing."

Usually these are people who broke the little glass while moving into the neighborhood....

and most have returned with the larger ones that required work to refit...

Which gave the opertunity for the upsell of ConClear, and new mat.... which makes it a good business action.... but if you're down town and drawing from a broad spectrum base... I might consider covering the $4 cost.

[gemsmom]

I finally got Decor mag. today. I read the article and my take was that the shops did the repairs for free on work purchased from them, not on work brought in from another shop. And the repairs were done at no charge whether the customer was at fault, or not.

I don't think they are doing anything that any of us wouldn't do.

[Mike LeCompte CPF]

Pamela: yeah I'll buy that BUUT: some of these customes were returning after YEARSsaying they broke it.

I think another good indication is when the cusomter brings in the broken piece and asks "how much will this cost to fix?" That's when we can start talking about rematting, reframing, changing glass to a better grade, or simply do repair job and it's up to you whether to charge or not.

NOT the "willy nilly" "do it for free" idea immediately.

[keiki]

For the last couple of years, especially since the hurricanes of '04 here, we have been offering rewire or repaper and other simple services for a donation into the Humane Society donation bank on our counter.

We will return with the customers problem solved and ask for a dollar amount and tell them to put it in the bank. We all feel good about that and they seem to remember that longer than just paying for the service and leaving.

[Mike LeCompte CPF]

Now THAT'S a cool idea. Keiki: do you ask for a specific dollar amount per service or just a "blind" unspecified donation?

[Jim Miller]

We may be wandering a bit off the topic with Keiki's kind of promotion -- and promotion it is. It is not giving away our products and services free of charge. The customer still has to produce a fair payment. This is good.

Civic-minded consumers like the idea of helping a cause THEY consider worthy. When their purchase results in a donation, they get to feel good about helping others. IMHO, that is better than appealing to their desire to get something for nothing with outright giveaways.

When the local Police hold their D.A.R.E. funding events, several tenants of the shopping center invite them to set up their tent in our parking lot and we try to conjure up a little home-made festival. I also advertise that we will donate to D.A.R.E. 5% or 10% of sales on specific days. We have also donated a percentage of sales to the high school band program specifically to help fund their trips to play in the Rose Bowl, and they play a parking lot concert here. Customers like that kind of community-spirited promotion.

Again, these are promotions, not giveaways. We predict a business benefit to come with the cost. While the full pay off may not be immediate every time, there is a long term benefit to associating the company with community good.