Signage

[D_Derbonne]

My business is in a freestanding building on a busy street. I am primarily a custom framer but also have a small gallery.
I took over an existing business thinking that I could make it work with very little money.
I'm still here but it has been a struggle.

Lots of cars drive by every day but I needed a way to attract their attention to my shop...something to make them want to stop and see what is here.
I have almost no budget to work with but had lots of old frames and some extra time.

I came up with this.

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SADrAuoU7e*Zgyb3S*4h7sb0FktsH0jDOJD*b9PZQaL2TnZoz 6tDY7pY6TujhvNIEqh58dyQURhMTcuf5*G0KhHhjAQsH1tVkQ6 AubEjyHsMAAAAynJfAg/collage%20003.jpg?dc=4675530764990017310

After 2 years it is time to take it down and rework it but it has attracted lots of people through my door.

I have plans to add some more color out front this year.

If anyone else is out there thinking they don't have enough money to make changes you need to make I am encouraging you to "think creatively."

[Janet L]

Like what you've got, but you might add an oval or round frame to give it another shape. Love the colors.

[JRB]

All I got on my screen was a little red X in a white box.

Do you have parking? That could be the reason folks are not stopping.

Perhaps the old owner had a bad reputation. Put a big butcher paper sign in the window that clearly says, "Under NEW Management.

Good luck,

John

[JRB]

Spend one hour every night after work knocking on doors and introducing yourself. Make this part of your daily routine. Always hand them a little flier that gives a rundown on the things you do. Smile a lot, be sure to shake hands. This one exercise will get your business up and running before you know it.

This is the old fashion way of doing things, surprisingly, it still works.

John

[elsa]

I love it!!

That would definatly get my attention, but then I can never pass up the chance to look at a frame!!

Elsa

[D_Derbonne]

Fortunately the previous owner had a good reputation.
I inherited a lot of her customers and still have people stroll in looking for her sometimes.

The problem was that hadn't marketed the business in quite awhile and I started out with little capital...that was in 2001.

I'm still here and my after a tough fall last year (in the hurricane belt here) my sales are up quite a bit.

My website has finally made the search engines.
I know because people are calling and coming into the store and telling me that is how they found the place.


The idea behind the piece in front of the shop was to draw attention..."oh, look...let's see what's in there."

Cold calls and networking are another issue.
I haven't done the cold calls yet but am doing more networking all the time.

[Rock]

Looks different for sure. The colors are nice and bright to attract attention but I'm surprised that some walking by didn't comment on the bad joints on the frames. graemlins/icon21.gif I don't know if that would work at our location, but hey, if it's all a person has to work with, ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Just make sure your new sign suggests to people your great at what you do. Looks can surely help, but they can hurt also, especially if your struggling for business.

Rock

[DTWDSM]

Your "sign" does not say who you are or what you do.

Let's face it, we in the industry would know that those were old frames but the average joe would not. Your name isn't on your "sign" This looks to be a sculpture that in all reality could be in fron of any business or even somebody's home.

Would it really tell me that this place is a frame shop / gallery and pull me in the door to frame my memories and artwork...Sorry it would not.

[Bob Carter]

Hi Deb-I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Tim on this one.

Often, we all want to share some fun with a fellow framer that is struggling, but we never seem to get to the real issue and that is "Is this an effective sign"?

If you saw a muffler shop that had a bunch of old mufflers brightly painted, would it really make me stop? Or, more importantly, the average shopper?

The only answer is found in two measureable categories: The amount of customers that actually do stop because of it (trackable) and the number of people that imitate it.

Of all the people that really love it: How many are busy making a copy today for their own business?

But, then I never get those shops that have the guy in the gorilla suit waving at cars as they drive by or the girls in the bikini in front of shops either

I think a more elegant, tasteful sign telling who you are and what you do might be more successful in reaching the client you really want.

But, the good news: It didn't cost much and probably didn't offend anyone and at least, you are trying something.

[D_Derbonne]

I do have another sign in front of my store.
I unfortunately don't have the money to have it redone.

I know this won't work for everyone, but it has helped me.

As you said Bob, the important thing is to do something!

[D_Derbonne]

By the way...any opinions about the banners that LJ is offering to partners?

I am considering purchasing one to hang under the sign that is on the street...the one I can't afford to reface.

Is anyone using them?

[Jay H]

I’m sorry Bob but I have to agree with everybody else on this one. We’re all just really guessing here and who could have a better understanding as Deb on the success of the sign? So if it has done any good at all I think the next should be bigger and brighter than the last.

Most of us fight for one thing and that’s attention. We don’t have walk in or even walk by traffic. When people walk by a mall type store, the shop has between 20 seconds and 2 hours (if there’s a seat in front of the store) of some real up close and personal time to tell their story to a potential customer. Our customers are traveling at 35 MPH. That doesn’t give us much time to say, “HEY LOOK AT ME.”

Well we all get a “guess” and mine is that the sign does a fine job with getting attention. I think that attention is like publicity, bad attention is better than no attention. That “thing” gets 1000 times more attention than a nicely framed piece sitting on an easel.

Bob, I’m not building one just like it. I have a very large sandwich board that is far above and beyond the best advertisement that I have ever bought. It’s not quite so bright as Deb’s. Maybe I should consider adding some more color? Thanks for sharing.

[D_Derbonne]

I never meant for anyone to make a sign sculpture like mine...just to say there are ways to attract attention without spending money you don't have.

I wish I had more money to do something more professional.

My windows are not visible as you pass by on the street.
On a busy thoroughfare it's easy to be lost in the crowd and the bright colors are what was needed to draw attention to my storefront.


When I have more money my existing signage will be refurbished but I will continue to have funky and brightly colored "art" outside my shop.

PS

Someone tried to buy it right after I made it.
I guess I should have sold it!

Oh, and I would love to see what some of you have done to draw attention to your shop on a very limited budget.

It really doesn't hurt and it might help someone else.

[SteveT]

I traded a sign guy some framing for a sign. He came back the next year and needed something small done and in trade he labeled my car. I have some embroidered shirts that came about by trade also.

Ask around, some sign person in your town must need some framing.
Steve

[Emibub]

I've shown this before, but, what the heck, I'll share it again......

I'm in a similar situation as Deb's with no working capital. My storefront faces the street where 40,000 cars drive by a day but this frameshop was here for 9 years before I go it and nobody knew it was there. It used to look like this:

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SACbAigWNTB7JT6F!iCsP6ydZiKOhe2gwwB5QsLcwZnHwEdSz ZzB*3CS4rx82I8QChD1U3iEZMbiE!dmeCKjMeDMY!T16wTeOTD Lwd18Or9LAAAAynIPAg/store2.JPG

How could anybody know there was a frameshop here? I wanted to change the sign to say "Framing" but at $4,000 price tag and what I thought were bigger issues I decided I would live with it. I had some artist friends offer to create some ambience outside to let people know what was on the inside so like Deb we used lots of color to attract attention with a couple of signs I naievely put up without the landlords permission. I'm lucky he has let me keep them up.

Those signs did create some interest but, it wasn't until talking to Jay Goltz and even over the phone after a few questions he was able to discern that my signage sucked and nobody knew it was a frameshop since it said "Art& gifts". He explained visibility is the number one thing you need to attract people. So, I made it my goal that summer to rework my sign. It was by far the best decision I have made with my business. I'm not saying I am rolling in dough or anything, but, I get plenty of people coming in who have not been in before and I am quite sure they have seen the sign.


http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0UQCNAg0ZSA8XM8Nx5HNQf8v5*KcM2hKRHUZKr8zurGbd2ztgC iK6Ort53wc88CknPvqk731oaaK2MxTuM6*uZ1QM89sBY5RymdK VdOJnjZSVIP682meu*5nFom64BK*G/store%2520front.JPG

One thing Jay told me is that you can actually lease signs so maybe that is a possibility to follow Deb, I was unaware you could lease them. I was lucky to find somebody to rework mine and add a couple letters to spell "Framing" and it only cost $900. The best $900 I spent by far. I'm so glad Jay brought the sign importance to my attention because I had dismissed it as out of my reach a year or so earlier and I don't know that I would have revisited the idea on my own.

[jframe]

Deb never said it was her sign. She said she did it to attract attention. It would attract my attention. I like it, Deb, and I think you should sell it and make another if you have the opportunity and save that money for a new sign!

Kathy, your sign looks great, it really gets the message accross.

[DTWDSM]

Deb,

You say that you have another sign that has your name, can we see a picture of it?

Also you said in your original post that this sign has brought in a lot of people. How do you know? I am not trying to be a smarta$$ here but how many people have said I saw your multi colored frame sculpture out front so I decided to try you out with my framing?

Or are you basing it by the people who come in and say thats an interesting sculpture out there, or something like that?

Now this may be something that is colorful and makes people look in your direction but it still does not tell people what you do. Many of us in the industry always look at things we do as a framer and not as the consumer.

You have said that your other sign need reworking as well, are you putting away a little money each month to save up to redo it? Your sign is a form of advertising, you just have to get it one and get it done right. I have heard people say that they don't have money to advertise and then say that once sales pick up they will have the money to advertise. How do they expect sales to pick up if they don't advertise I always ask.

Look into leasing a new sign, look into a trade, go to the SBA and get a loan, whatever, if you know you need a new sign make it happen and it will pay for itself if it is done professionally.
Ask Kathy..

[Ron Eggers]

There are more than a couple of Grumblers who know how to post photos, but how many have posted photos of their storefront? I don't think I have, and it's too late now. Kudos to Deb and Kathy for showing us something we rarely see.

Most of us put framed art in our windows. I usually had at least one $25 print in a $400 frame and, invariably, people coming in would ask about the print.

For those who are primarily framers, I think the challenge is to let people know, at a glance, that this is what we do.

I always laughed (silently) at the people who came in asking if I sold telephones or drafting tables, but the fact that they asked was almost certainly a "sign" of inadequate signage.

[D_Derbonne]

Tim,
I know that people have come into the store as a result of the frame sculpture because they have told me that is the reason they stopped.
I have a small gallery as well as framing so in a sense it does say something about my business.


I will try to snap a photo of the existing sign in the next couple of days and post it.

Having that sign redone is on my list of things to do this year.
I have discontinued some other non effective advertising in order to come up with the money for that project.


The professional sign on the street is my best advertising. I know because people tell me they have been driving by and seen it...sometimes driving by for years before they stop...so the key is to make them stop!

Oh, and by the way, I appreciate all the opinions that are being expressed here.
Discussion is good!

[Patrick Leeland]

I have to say that I think it depends on the type of store Deb has as to weather the sign works. If she is going for a snooty gallery it may clash with what she is tryig to do. On the other hand if she has funky fun art it could go nicely.

I would tend to agree with getting your name in there. It would catch some attention, but telling people what you do and where you are never hurt. Good luck with it.

Patrick Leeland

[Jerry Ervin]

Deb

I love it! I may try one myself. I have thousands of feet of old moulding to experiment on. A couple cans of spray paint will do the trick.

Like you, I have wondered about the LJ banners. They are very affordable and I think I will buy one. I was planning to hang one in a window. I have not seen one in person and don't know if they are durable enough to stay out in the weather.

I'll let you know soon.

[Jay H]

Thats a good idea Ron. This is a theme I have been working with a bit. I'm also concerned that this may not explain what I do at a glance either. http://www.greatangles.com/images/fakestore.jpg

[Rock]

Now THAT is what I'm talking about :D :D :D

Rock

[D_Derbonne]

Jerry, I saw one of LJ's banners last week when my rep visited.
They look good...very professional.

We discussed sandwiching it between plexi for outdoor use.

[Dan Larson]

Like many of the other businesses here, we at Iris Framing started out with little or no money for our store, much less our signage.

Like many of the other businesses here, we drew upon our talents and creativity (and my degree in printmaking) for our sign. Through college I carved a lot of wood blocks to print for my classes. I didn't see how that was any different from making a sign. After carving up a piece of 3/4" birch plywood, we painted it, framed it in a giant frame and (to get around liability insurance and town permit issues) hung it from INSIDE the store window facing the main artery through town.

The funny (ironic) part of that story is that, the weekend we opened (back in October, 2004) while I was carving the sign in our shop a customer saw me working and said "you carve signs here too?" and of course, without missing a beat I said "absolutely!. How many did you need?"

$500 later, we had added a new source of revenue to our business.

Below is a picture of our store front just after we opened back in October, seen from outside the store.

http://irisframing.com/signforweb.jpg

[Emibub]

Jay, I'd like to see what sort of "artwork" get's taken in with that type of storefront! Bet it comes in wrapped in a brown wrapper though.... graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Dan, your sign is very nice.........

Maybe a better name for the thread would have been "creating curb appeal", because that is exactly what Deb's sculpture does. It is something to draw attention. If I were allowed to have things near the curb here I would love to have one outside of my store too.

That is the first thing one of the artist's who helped create the stuff in front of my store asked me. She said, "I love your store, it is bright cheerful and a fun atmosphere, but how does anybody out there know what is inside?" There was no sign of anything fun or creative going on inside of here at all. So, I think curb appeal is important as well as signage.

[j Paul]

I have the Larson Banners and they do look great and I think would hold up as well as any other outside. I have the 30x50 on the bottom half of my door as they are double sided. I also have a smaller one that I put on the side walk in a double side sign holder. However they are pretty generic, they are basically a large version of the adds that we see in the trades. Only abilty to customize is by adding one of several tag lines offered.

HOWEVER, I did just purchase a banner on line from eBay that is 2' x 12' and you can select background color and any custom lettering you want. I got bright yellow with black lettering "CUSTOM FRAME SALE" It has metal grommets every three foot. I hung it on stainless steel hooks and then thru the grommets and hooks attached with framing wire so that if flys loose in the breeze. We have been having severe storms the last week and everything is still fine. It is hanging 24/7

Here is an item #7530871370 for one by the same seller on eBay. I think I paid about $54.00 w S&H

I plan on ordering more with different wording and colors to change out regularly. Like "WE DO SHADOWBOXES" , "WE STRETCH CANVAS", "PHOTO RESTORATION" ect. Marc Bluestone says he uses different messages and different colors and rotates them between his various locatations. It has definitely help for the week or so I have had it out. It hangs right below my $5,000. sign.

Will try and post some pics tommorrow.

[DTWDSM]

Jay,
With a sign like that and a girl in a bikini who needs an advertsiing budget?? Get a guy with an ape suit and you are on your ways to millions!!

[Ron Eggers]

Maybe a better name for the thread would have been "creating curb appeal" There ya go, Kathy!

"Signage" is one of those words - like "roughage" - that just sounds unpleasant.

[D_Derbonne]

Okay, next time I want to start a thread I'll ask Kathy for suggestions on the title.
Critics, always critics! graemlins/shrug.gif

[j Paul]

Here is a pic of the Banner that I just purchased on eBay (see post above) Also notice Larson juhl Banner on door. Sorry pic's aren't greastest just have a little cheapy digital.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v389/jpbarlowe/7-19-05003.jpg

The Framed piece on the easel is fopr a FREE DRAWING if they come in and register for our monthly e-mail newsletter. Will give away with the Sept newsletter. Can only be won if you have e-mail and winner will only be notified via the e-mail newsletter.

[Joe Canadian]

Let them know what you do.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b32/Joecanadian/
lm000756.jp

[Joe Canadian]

Try again
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b32/Joecanadian/lm000756.jp

[Joe Canadian]

Well, when all else fails, I will go read the directions
Correct link comming soon

[Ron Eggers]

You are posting a link, not the image.

Cut and paste the Photobucket info that starts with [img]

[Mecianne]

We are in a shopping center that is perpendicular to the highway so even signage on the building does no good unless they actually turn in to the place. We have no highway frontage signs at all. It only says Wisteria Place (the name of the plaza). Our landlady does allow banners tastefully erected out by the highway. My husband does all of the graphic design for out advertisements, t-shirts, window lettering etc. We have a 3' X 12' banner out by the highway that has gotten alot of customers (we know this because we ask everyone how they heard about us). It cost about $100 plus tax. We are severely restricted on window signs and "Sale" signs can only be posted for a certain amount of time. Window lettering is size specific as well. The huge sign above our store would cost no less than $6000----we don't have $6000---but the view doesn't seem to justify such an expense. I like the $100 banner better. And because we do all of our own artwork, we sometimes get a break on price.


P.S. Deb, I dig your frame sculpture. It would catch my eye & make me interested in what all I might find inside.

[Emibub]

Originally posted by D_Derbonne:
Okay, next time I want to start a thread I'll ask Kathy for suggestions on the title.
Critics, always critics! graemlins/shrug.gif Yikes, Deb, I wasn't criticizing.......I just was adding to the discussion and thought "curb appeal" was the proper term for your sculpture.

But, for a small fee I will be happy to proofread any posts for subject matter and come up with a catchy title with a bon-a-fide guarantee of high response levels. Please submit all inquiries to www.emibubsfundsforherfuture.com. (http://www.emibubsfundsforherfuture.com.) I will accept checks and cash for payment, please no charges. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

[CharlesL]

Deb, I like your sculpture, and your web-site as well! You've done some remarkable things with glass!

Kathy's <font size=4 color=red>FRAMING</font> catches the eye, as well as her storefront. You've come a long way, baby!

There're always nay-sayers waiting in the wings to criticize. There's a guy here in town that's made many, many dollars running a muffler shop. He 'built' a 'man' out of mufflers, painted them all colors, and put a good-sized sign on the 'muffler-man' that said, "Complete Muffler Work". He's stopped doing muffler work, because he made enough money to buy lots and lots and lots of real estate, rental houses, etc.

Jay, how long will it take me to get to Owensboro? I can play a little bit of guitar, keyboards, and even tend bar, if necessary. You're gonna need a house band...resume on request.

Deb, your sign's fine, IMHO, as long as FRAMING is also evident! Y'all done GOOD! I don't know beans about business, but I know what catches my eye!

[Matoaka]

I love the pictures! And Deb, I think your sign-on-a-shoestring is terrific. It would have me looking twice if I drove by.

Have fun with your new project!

[Framing Goddess]

Mecianne,
What does your "banner out by the highway" say?
Any graphics?

Details, I want details! (better yet, post a picture!)

edie the itsalwayssomethin goddess

[Joe Canadian]

Last attempt http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b32/Joecanadian/IM000756.jpg

[Jay H]

It works...

A really nice canopy would set that building off nicely....I like the light pole too.

[Joe Canadian]

Yes, a canopy was in the original design.
Unfortunately,it did not conform to local zoning bylaws. ( no encroachment over the sidewalk )

[J Phipps TN]

I agree a Canopy would be beautiful,But They are expensive.

But great Signage.

JEnnifer

[FloridaHangUpz]

Wonderful Ideas. I have a cute funky sign but will add custom framing somewhere to attract attention this week since I am just starting the framing service.

I have the local news coming to visit my shop Friday so I will get 2 free two minute segments to show off what I do and I am hoping that might help.

But thanks to you all..I am going to rework my window displays.

So Jay....did the bukit nakit framing and free beer net much traffic..lol. I been thinking about a bikini car wash fund raiser...free car wash with every framing job...and for the ladies a male massage therapist does a free massage while you wait on your framing...Tips accepted. lol.