What's causing the drop in the number of independent shops?

[Jim A]

What has been the cause to drop the the of independent shops for 40,000 in 1990 to 20,000 in 1999? Projections seem to be even worse.

Has it been the big boxes?

Are the numbers flawed from the PPFA? Are they only looking at their members?

Was it the economy?

Was it franchises; are they impacting the market?

Is it that shops are not changing with the market condtions?

Are we not giving the customer what they want?

Are the customers misinformed about framing?

Department stores selling ready mades. Are the competing.

Way to many other factors to consider.

Is everyone growth flat, declining, or are you growing?

Have you lost any shops in your area or have there been shops gained. I have only seen 1 close and about 4 open.

I sure that it a combination of all of them, but what do you think was the real cause. Looking thru a phone book it looks like there are more locations that doing framing then ever. If the big boxes are taking away that many orders, the numbers don't make much sense. A loss of 20,000 independents. If just "M" has has 1000 stores, does that mean they are doing 20X the volume of these closed independents. Where did the rest of the business go? There has to be something else has has caused this. Any ideas?

[JRB]

A new generation of business owners who lack the intestinal fortitude to stick it out in rough times. It's a lot easier to just give up and quit than it is to tough it out and solve problems.

John

[Tim Hayes.]

Individuals who are ill equipped, under capitalized and think of framing as a craft or hobby not a business.

[Emibub]

My ego is going to take quite a beating from the things you guys are posting.....I was, and am under capitalized and was ill equipped. Man, that smarts.......but, I still have a bit of intestinal fortitude left.......and I am still here......

[Cliff Wilson]

I have only been open a year, so I have no history to evaluate. But, the things you guys have said so far make no sense to me. I can't believe that the percentage of ignorance (no offense Kathy ;) ) has risen in recent years.

About two years ago, I was looking at some market research which indicated "home decor" and "art" purchases had been on a steady increase in recent years. If there is a decrease in independents (I have seen the numbers quoted, but have not seen the methodology behind the studies.), then only an increase in non-independents can explain it. (Again, assuming the studies I saw earlier and the studies you are quoting are valid.)

Now, I believe we have seen many discussions on if/how/why BBs are/may be/can't take business from independents, so I won't go down that path.

In my area, I have seen two shops open and three close. The closures were ... a woman who decided she didn't need the money and just wanted to run a gallery, a shop that moved to a BAD location and took out loans to put in T. K****** viewing booths, then couldn't pay the loan, and a shop that was "kicked out" of it's building when it was sold. That last one is "sitting in the guys basement in boxes" and may emerge again. Looks close to a net 0 change to me. tongue.gif

[Framerguy]

Cliff,

I think that it depends on where you are located across this country. There are areas of depressed economy and areas of huge growth that spawns increased art/framing purchases.

I don't believe that the BB's are absconding with all of the independent's customers unless they are so bad at framing or so high priced that the BB's can do better or price lower than the independent. That is a fact in some areas and their purchasing power gives them the edge on pricing but the small shop is still there for the people who want that personal service and quality goods.

I also feel that trends are slowly changing in people's needs and their shopping habits. If one would pay close attention to what the big guys are doing and try to emulate their advertising and stock quality products along with a nice array of unique gift items, the customers will take note of what you have to offer, in most cases.

Framerguy

[gemsmom]

I joke that the shops that disappeared from my immediate area over the nineteen years I've been here were put out of business by me. I don't think this area will support alot of frame shops, and that could be the case in other areas. It could be a matter of survival of the fittest (or best). Even Michaels moved out of here two years ago.

So, maybe ten years ago there was a peak in framing establishments. The best made it, the others did not.

[AnneL]

Don't forget the hugh increase in preframed art. Very little art used to be for sale already framed, now it seems like it is everywhere.

[FramerRandy]

As one who is just coming up on three years, this is the first holliday season where business has increased significantly. I had been in this business years ago, in a previous life smile.gif , and chose to re-enter.
I knew that the first year would require putting money into the business, in addition to what I used to set it up, but expected to "break even" after 12 to 18 months. Then along comes 9-11. Every thing is blamed on that :( .
It took 18 months to "break even" but this year is now up 45% over last years and may end up higher still, depending on how this month is.
I've seen several close around here, but the number of shops is about the same. It just plain takes time to build up a customer base, since most of the business coming in is repeat. And you need the new customers to turn them into repeat customers. Just my two cents worth. ;)

[Ron Eggers]

To characterize the owners of failed frame shops as lacking in intestinal fortitude or intelligence is, I think, a gross simplification.

JRB and I disagree on this, but I think I've seen changes in our industry that will spell the end of most (but not all) small frame shops like mine.

If I decided, after, say, 30 years in the trenches to close my shop and be a greeter at Wal-Mart or a book-seller at Barnes and Noble, I'd hate to have anyone say I never really gave it a chance.

I AM startled when I see a retail store or restaurant open and close within six months. It takes me three years or more to unpack.

[Less]

Less is more.

For Less.

[ 12-03-2003, 09:42 PM: Message edited by: lessafinger ]

[printmaker]

Originally posted by Jim A:
What has been the cause to drop the the of independent shops for 40,000 in 1990 to 20,000 in 1999? Yet another nail in the coffin of so many independents in this area, aside from those already mentioned, was the choking demise of the limited edition reproduction "market"...

At one time, one could sell almost anything with a number and signature. Many independent frame shops popped up during this gluttonous era, when "limited edition" junk "art" was shamelessly peddled, seemingly without end...

Like bloated sharks feasting on the huge carcass of a whale, shops new and old thrived on both sales and the subsequent over-kill, high-profit framing of these posters.

Many of the survivors limp along today, burdened by the weight of carrying a huge remaining inventory of junk, and reminisce fondly about the "good old days".

Perhaps the answer to the original question lies, not in the fact that there are fewer shops today, but that there were actually far too many around in 1990?

On the other hand, what do I know? ;)

[Ron Eggers]

Then, I guess it follows that "none is the most."

[Barb Pelton]

In the last decade there have been 9 framers (retail and homebased) in my area. Now, besides me, there are only 2 part time framers. (One only frames for 6 months, then travels for 6 months, the other does other things besides framing and it's not a mainstream income for them).

3 others opened since I've been here, all 3 are gone now. In talking to the 3, I didn't get the sense that any of them had done their homework thoroughly and all 3 marketed themselves as "less expensive than the other store" (me).
You know, you can only be so much cheaper and still turn a profit.

I think framemaker has a valid point. The limited edition print market is suffering badly.

Framed art is sold everywhere and it's getting better. Some of it looks quite good, in fact.
Who cares if it has a life of 7-10 years? As soon as the new sofa is delivered, it's yard sale fodder! Art decor will be bought at the furniture store and only the things people really treasure will be taken to the frame store.
Those things are worth the investment, and the other will be rotated in a few years and is disposable.

Why buy a limited edition print anymore? I mean , really, why?

The industry has been evolving for about a decade and will continue to do so and I believe that only the ones that understand this will survive in the end.

I'll go ahead and post this although I really didn't add anything new. We've said all this before, haven't we?

[Reynard]

I would reckon that its the deskilling in the trade that has gone on over the past twenty years or so but which has been speeding up the past decade.

Anyone can manage to frame a picture now with all the tools available.Its cheap to set yourself up in business and once big boxes realise they can churn out stuff relatively cheaply but with decent margins then indies suffer.People tend to be lazy shoppers.Not all of them are though but good framers tend to have to fight for those folk.

Basically I have no idea and I,ll shut it now tongue.gif

[Reynard]

BTW printmaker,I thoroughly agree with you about limited editions.

I like to be fairly scathing about them when folk come in thinking they have bought some kind of valuable item.Folk have been getting ripped off for a long time with these items.I still can,t understand why people are willing to pay huge sums of money for a glorified poster when they could buy something much more worthwhile and original.

I,m now on a personal crusade to point and laugh at as many folk as I can that think they have "invested" in art.

Ido realise that some folk buy them purely as decoration and they are more to be pitied than laughed at ;)

[EllenAtHowards]

Perhaps I am just in a cynical mood today, but my guess is that most independent frameshops are going to go the way of independent pharmacies, office supply stores, stationers, dress shops, shoe stores, and grocers. Just think what your downtown looked like in the early 60s. There were lots of little stores that were owner operated. Now people shop at malls where the stores are owned by congomerates. And the consumers don't care. They want convenience, 50% off a month before Christamas, and little or no help with choosing anything. But fear not! These too, shall pass, and most folks will shop online. It is easier, you don't even have to get dressed to do it.

Most of what we buy, we expect to throw away. Have you tried to get an appliance FIXED recently?

Sure, there will be some of us left, because there are people who know the difference between adequate and really good quality work. But how many custom tailored clothes do you own? Much better quality and fit. People used to go to tailors or dressmakers, but we don't even shop at clothiers now (where there were knowledgeable people to help one choose and they even offered the service of altering ready-to-wear), we shop at Penney's or Walmart and take what we can get and make do with it...

Gloomy Gus today... sorry.

[katman]

I think life for virtually all independents targeting the home decor market is getting tougher, particularly in metropolitan areas where consumers spend more time in traffic commuting to work, have to fight more traffic nights and weekends to get somewhere, and as a result of time pressures "binge" buy, which to me means they hit the mall or shopping center with the best concentration of big boxes or other stores so they can one-stop shop.

Framers aren't alone in having to adjust. Those of us in PPFA can just look at out trade publications and see the independent photo shops are also getting squeezed as the big boxes like Sam's and Walmart, CVS, etc. use photoprocessing as a loss leader to pull customers in. Add the on-line digital processors into the equation and it is very hard for an independent photo lab to operate as a destination store. The trend is the same in the photo biz as in framing--every year a larger share of the photo work goes to the drug store chains and Big Boxes. Some, like my business, also offer framing and other services to draw customers. I've started doing it way before the PMA/PPFA merger. I have to wonder why PMA is pushing framing in so many of its magazine articles. It is tough for both.

You still need a good location, which means premium rent. And you need good help. In my market the inexpensive retail help tends to go to the mall for employment, so I end up using premium employees for tasks that could be done by a high school kid.

I'm not in the highest cost location in my area. Rent, electricity, telephones, insurance and one full time employee are my base overhead and cost about $8,000.00/month. My photoprocessing equipment, chemistry, paper, inks, service contracts average about $6000.00/month.

So, 168K is needed before I can get a beer.

Some of those independents that are shutting the doors on their retail shops are trying the home-based approach, and whining about LJ not selling to them. I'll take a hit on this from some of you, but I appreciate the excellent service I get from LJ and the company's commitment to retail framers.

Others have concluded they are better off financially getting a job as a Walmart greeter. They probably also have more free time to recreate. They have made a business, professional, and quality of life decision. That's not failure.

I think John is a bit right about the intestinal fortitude. But there are also some other factors. Like, well look at Emibub. She wants her own business, and she wants it to be framing.
That is a choice she wants to stick with. If she doesn't exhaust herself, she probably won't get rich but I think she can succeed in her goal of having her own business.

I think some of those people who closed up their shops had this vision that retail was easy street, or they really didn't enjoy what goes along with owning your own business and dealing daily with an unpredictable but absolutely essential commodity--customers.

It would be fun all the time if we didn't need customers to pay the rent!

[Jim A]

Just looked at some business stats on the web. It looks like about half of new ones that open fail in less than a year. I would guess that most haven't had any retail experience or business experience. I think that most people don't realize that it takes hard work to make it. It seems that everyone thinks everything should come to them with little work in todays society. It's difficult to start on a shoestring budget and many do, some make and others don't. You must be properly capitalized for the time you don't have enough income and profit to pay the bills. Alot of individuals treat a business as a hobby going in and think it is going to be alot of fun. Framing is a business, like any other business, and you have to treat it that way.

[JRB]

Having a lot of capital to carry you through the slow times is a nice little daydream. Very few frame shops are able to actually accomplish that on their start up budget. Just about all the money goes into renting a space, equipment, decoration, signs, advertising, etc.

The main thing you do need is perseverance.

I started my business almost thirty years ago with a grand total of $250.00 to my name. I did not get a business loan from anybody. My $250.00 has grown considerably over the years. The reason? I stuck it out, period. By the way, I was not home based, I started with a store front.

I guess that in todays dollars, that is probably the equivalent of around $1,200.00 to $1,500.00

This is one of the beauties of our industry, you don't need a large amount of money to get started. You do need intestinal fortitude and a few smarts, or at least the ability to think a little. You also need to have somewhat of a basic understanding of our craft.

John

[Ron Eggers]

I think I heard a statistic a few years ago that 50% of the frame shops in the U.S. closed up each year and were replaced by an equal number.

I'd guess that an equal percentage are still closing each year, but not being replaced at the same rate.

It might be easier to frame, because of CMCs, underpinners, etc. but it's also much more expensive to get set up. The framer who starts out with a Dexter mat cutter, a hand-saw and a Stanley vice had better be the world's greatest designer and salesman, 'cause it's going to be tough to compete on the production end.

The person with a few hundred thousand to invest in a business is more likely to open a Starbucks or a Krspey Kreme.

[Jim Miller]

I agree with most of the comments so far, except this one:


A new generation of business owners who lack the intestinal fortitude to stick it out in rough times. It's a lot easier to just give up... I believe small business owners are getting smarter and more tenacious, not softer.

The framers I see failing are the older-established ones, who did profitable business easily for years. They thought business dropped off because of "rough times", and they would just "stick it out" until things get back to normal. Nope. The times just keep getting rougher, and they just starve.

Granted, the economy has been down, and the USA has suffered a string of economic, cultural, and social upheavals since 1999, our industry's last really good, normal year.

But "normal" for us will never be like it was a decade ago. Regardless of economic factors, our industry is experiencing fundamental changes.

Mass merchandisers and craft stores have taken the bottom half of the wall decor & framing industry, largely due to production automation & computer-aided management systems. The "digital revolution" has decimated the art & photographic industries.

Like Ellen, I think our slice of small-business retailing is now suffering an assault similar to that of locally-owned hardware stores, dry cleaners, and pharmacies. As she pointed out, some of us will adapt & cater to those whose wants aren't fulfilled by the mass-merchandisers. The rest of us will join Ron as Wal-Mart greeters.

[Ron Eggers]

Honestly, I'd prefer the Barnes and Noble gig, but I gotta be flexible.

[Jason Foster]

I've been reading with great interest the comments made with regards to the survival of the independent framers. I believe the answer to competing with big box merchandisers rests in studying the habits of the consumer. By learning more about the consumer, you may be able to realign your business strategy to better compete with mass merchandisers. I am a key target consumer, the son of parents who frame their grandchildren's photos, a former successful business owner, and someone who is new to this industry. At present, I am the Marketing Director at Lieberman's Gallery.

As a 34 year old consumer, I have a need to fill my walls and can afford expensive original art or other home décor items. Oddly enough, I have never set foot in an art gallery or a custom frame shop (as a consumer). It’s too intimidating. I know very little about the art that is displayed in galleries and do not feel comfortable spending several hundreds or thousands of dollars on products I do not understand. The same is true for custom frame shops. I do not understand the complexity in choice and prices/values of custom frame products. In addition, I categorize custom frame shops as a place where my parents or grandparents would shop to pay more money than they should to frame their cheap art.

I prefer to shop at mass merchandisers like Target because chances are they will have a 20-30 dollar frame that is perfectly acceptable for my 20 dollar poster. In addition, nobody hovers over me and I can peruse the frames at will without feeling guilty if I left the store prior to making a purchase. The quality of the frame is only a factor in that I don’t want it to look cheap. It does not need to last more than 2-3 years. I would happily replace it or throw it away if the product broke or my tastes were to change. It’s not an investment. If I knew a custom framer offered the same “cheap frame” selections as Target (and as a consumer I don’t know if you do), I would be much more willing to visit a custom framer with the intent to learn more and possibly make a purchase. I would like the ability to view product choices independently and find assistance when solicited. I may even be talked into paying more for a better product once I learned about the various unique choices. The attraction of having a frame on my wall that my friends are not likely to have is enticing but I need to be taught. I like Target because I know no matter what, I will find something I like in the price range I’ve allocated. If Target had a sales rep who was willing to teach me more and show me more I would probably be willing to spend at least double on a better frame. As a consumer, I would be more willing to shop in a custom frame store if I knew they had the same low end range of products as Target in addition to a large selection of higher end better quality products.

As for my parents, they’ve recently had several pictures and posters framed at Michael’s. It was a quick process and they spent a little more for the frame than they did for the items they were framing. They are not “art” buyers and did not feel a custom frame shop was appropriate considering the cheap value of the items they were framing. Rightfully or wrongfully, they too, are under the impression custom frame shops do not offer the low end range of choices. They admitted they would shop in custom frame stores if they knew they could purchase a low end frame with the same price point as something they found in Michael’s and would consider paying more for something better. The other merchandise for sale in Michael’s was an annoyance to them rather than an attraction. As a side note, both of my parents (59 years old) are web savvy and conduct a good deal of research and purchasing online (cars, electronics, DVD’s, etc…). They perceive themselves as being hip and like the lure of the modern day store (like Target or Michael’s).

As a former business owner, my experience has found there are many reasons why businesses fail; undercapitalized, management, lack of industry knowledge, naïve expectations about time commitment and stress, etc… My China based market research company had clients ranging from Fortune 500 companies to small start ups. Our client’s main attraction was the combination of credibility in the industry and their perception that we had the latest and greatest market research tools and methodologies to meet their needs (full range of services). I believe the same is true in the custom frame industry. There is a stereotype amongst my piers and parents that custom frame shops are somewhat stale and intimidating places to shop with expensive product offerings. As a professional newcomer to the industry I have found this to be far from the truth.

To change this perception, my advise would be to make sure your product offering can compete with the mass merchandisers. Consider stocking the cheaper alternatives (like Target) to lure customers in and work on educating consumers about your other quality items and custom frame choices. Demonstrate that you have knowledge in the industry and quality products via the use of distinctive custom framing techniques, full range of product selection, and snazzy sales tools including electronic displays (a computer with software - which are becoming more popular). It will take time to develop a new base of customers, but it’s not impossible. There’s a lack of appreciation because the custom frame value proposition in my opinion is not being made clear to the consumer. Target is the default and simple choice. As a consumer, I need a reason to change my shopping habits. I’m not opposed to change (nor are my parents), we’re just not informed and do not have confidence that we will find what we’re looking for in a convenient way at a specified price in a custom frame store.

Jason Foster
Ready-to-change-consumer

[Jim Miller]

Jason:

You've got some very good & thought-provoking points.

As a 34 year old consumer, I have a need to fill my walls and can afford expensive original art or other home décor items. Oddly enough, I have never set foot in an art gallery or a custom frame shop (as a consumer). It’s too intimidating.

That's not unusual, Jason. Depending on the neighborhood, something like 20% to 30% of adult consumers ever (in their whole lives, that is) buy custom framing. We're playing to a very small consumer audience.

I prefer to shop at mass merchandisers like Target because chances are they will have a 20-30 dollar frame that is perfectly acceptable for my 20 dollar poster...The quality of the frame is only a factor in that I don’t want it to look cheap. It does not need to last more than 2-3 years. I would happily replace it or throw it away if the product broke or my tastes were to change. It’s not an investment.

You're not my target customer, Jason. You're the craft store's target.

My niche is with consumers who have important items of high value (sentimental or monetary), that they want to save as heirlooms -- or at least very impressive collectibles. Money is not their primary issue. They want quality, creativity, unique capabilities, and preservation.

For example, if your kid won a really special trophy for some rare achievement, you might want to have it framed in an acrylic display case, along with some photos and other memorabilia. Target can't help you. I can.

If I knew a custom framer offered the same “cheap frame” selections as Target...I would be much more willing to visit a custom framer... As a consumer, I would be more willing to shop in a custom frame store if I knew they had the same low end range of products as Target

Custom framers have no hope of competing with them on price. Those who try usually starve.

[UzZx32QU]

Jason, Many of us find Micheal's not cheap at all. They charge about the going rate(at their sale prices) on average, their regular price is quite high. They are not a bargin if you really take the time to compare.

framer

Jim A, What is your source of your data?

[Ron Eggers]

Jason, expect a little dissension from the troops here, but there is a lot of truth in your post.

I am flabbergasted when someone brings in, say, her great-grandmother's marriage certificate and says, "It's not a standard size. I already checked everywhere." As if the availability of a 9-11/16" x 16-3/4" frame is the only reason to use an experienced custom framer.

I'll tell you a little secret. The very first frame shop I ever entered in my entire life was my own.

Just don't tell anyone else. They already think I'm crazy here.

[JRB]

I recently received this e-mail

Something about TARGET STORES We Should Be Concerned About.

By Dick Forrey of the Vietnam Veterans Association.

Recently we asked the local TARGET store to be a proud sponsor of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall during our spring recognition event.

We received the following reply from the local TARGET management: " Veterans do not meet our area of giving. We only donate to the arts, social action groups, gay & lesbian causes, and education."

So I am thinking, if the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall and veterans in general do not meet their donation criteria, then something is really wrong with this TARGET store. We were not asking for thousands of dollars, not even hundreds, just a small sponsorship for a memorial remembrance.

As a follow-up, I e-mailed the TARGET U.S. corporate headquarters and their response was the same. That is their national policy.

Then I looked into the company further. They will not allow the Marines to collect for ' Toys For Tots' at any of their stores. And during the recent Iraq deployment, they would not allow families of employees who were called up for active duty to continue their insurance coverage while they were on military service. Then I dig further, TARGET is a French-owned corporation.

Now I'm thinking again. If TARGET stores can not support American Veterans, then why should I and my family support their stores by spending our hard earned American dollars and to have their profits sent to France. Without American Vets, where would France be today?

11/28/2003


Jason, I don't mean to be critical of your post, in fact I appreciate the effort you went to for our benefit. I just think your choice of a default example as a great place to get frames left a lot to be desired.

John

[ 12-04-2003, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: JRB ]

[Bob Carter]

Jason has a very interesting post that reminds me of Focus Groups. To the average person, it was easy to find fault and disagree with their point of view. But, to the wiser person, you realized that they were expressing one person's perspective. It is important to listen and understand what they are really saying. And if you heard it often (either overtly or not)you needed to pay attention.

I think it's true here, also.

He's telling us we aren't inviting, we are intimidating, the unknown is daunting. He's telling us that, true or not, we are perceived as expensive. He says that if framers offered alternatives to pricing obstacles he might be more inclined to spend his money with us. He's telling us things that many have said before him, yet we continue to dismiss them.

I'm finishing some in depth market research on this very topic for the PPFA convention in Feb in Vegas. It's not done yet, but the direction is clear and those more adept at marketing and interpreting this data are taking full advantage of the forces at work in the marketplace.

And we continue to ignore these basic forces. The marketplace punishes those that refuse to adapt, and we as an industry simply refuse to change. And we just don't have the ability to drive change in the marketplace.

We ought to thank Jason for his point of view. I don't think it is singular

[Jim A]

The data came from DECOR's Pricing and Profit on page 12 in an article by William P. Parker called "Who's Ready for 'A Hard Candy Christmas". I'm assuming you were asking about the number of closings.

[Jana]

Hi John, Please check this out. Target is not an evildoer.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/target.asp

[JRB]

Jana, after reading your link to TARGET, it appears to me of a case where corporate headquarters is doing a little spin work in order to cover their butts with veterans. I'm not buying it.

Bob is right, Jason has given us a LOT to think about. We have all heard this stuff before and Bobs right, we usually just dismiss it as another bottom feeder bitching. Jason has done us a big service by making that post. Now it's in writing, spelled out plainly. How do we respond?

John

[Jana]

I don't know, John. I trust Snopes. It also says Target is an American company. There doesn't appear to be a French connection.

[Sharonx]

John: My husband was a rep for years and called on Targets home office. To the best of my knowledge it has always been owned by the Dayton Hudson org in Minneapolis. If that ownership has changed in the past few years, I would be most interested. I would never shop with a French company but have not heard that Target is French owned.

[Dermot]

John

Who is the French company who own Target!!!!!

Thanks

Dermot

[Jana]

Here's some more debunking of the Target email:

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl-target-veterans.htm

[JRB]

I just got the e-mail. I have no clue of who owns TARGET stores. I have a tendency to believe it though. I have never seen the 'Toys for Tots' barrels in front of target.

The veterans group was asking for a small amount of money. Why could not TARGET give their store managers the authority to just give it from petty cash. They could even set up an account so that their individual store managers could take care of these petty little problems before it explodes into a nationwide veteran to veteran e-mail campaign.

No matter who owns TARGET, they have made community support a complex issue for any organization to get donations from. It is a typical large company response to save a few hundred dollars per store per month.

If they can entrust an entire retail operation worth many millions of dollars to a store manager, surly they can entrust his ability to determine if some small donation would be a benefit to the community.

Filling out complex forms and sending them to a corporate headquarters will discourage most small programs to just not bother asking.

Either way, TARGET has lost my business. The veterans e-mail campaign had to get started for a valid reason, TARGET has definitely said NO to American Veterans.

As a response to this e-mail campaign, TARGET is going to insist that they have always supported American vets. That still does not explain how this e-mail campaign got started in the first place.

It started with a store manager saying,NO it is not our policy to donate to American Veterans organizations. This saved the store manager from having to go through a complex process of contacting his main office, or perhaps just walking half a mile through the store to get the proper forms for the veterans organization to mail in.

John

[Terry Scidmore CPF]

I agree with many of the points others have posted here, but I have a couple of thoughts to add - late, as usual!

I started framing in the 70's, and have noticed that a number of people started shops in the early to middle 80's for a variety of reasons. PPFA did an industry survey in 1983, and 1994. It showed that among members, there had been a minimal increase in gross sales among the retailers, but a significant increase in gross sales among the suppliers. This might indicate that there were more framers splitting the pie (hence, little increase in revenues per shop). It could also be one reason that the suppliers showed a much larger increase. Hence, there were more framers than the market needed at that time.

A second thing that I have noticed in our framing guild is that a lot of shops that have closed in the last 10 years have been people who were retirement age who "retired", and people who were doing it more as a hobby, not as their major source of income. The second wave of framers are people like me, who will retire in a few years, or people that have come into framing after another career (also older and moving into retirement). In my area, I haven't found any framers who are young people in their 20's or 30's starting shops. I wonder who will replace my framer friends when we quit.

When I started my business, there were 5 other shops within the radius I draw business from. One was a local chain with one location in the area, the rest were independents. A few years ago we were up to 21 framers in this same area - 2 local chains with 2 locations each, 5 BB's, 7 retail store fronts and the rest in home. This year we are at 5 BB's (one BB closed but was replaced by another), 2 local chains, each with two locations, and 7 independent retail store fronts. 5 of the independents are the people who opened the store initially, and 2 are independents that have sold to several different owners. The in home businesses come and go quickly now, so it is hard to track them.

In conclusion, in my area, no one is getting rich being a framer (or working for the BB's), but the stores have been pretty stable for a number of years.

[ 12-05-2003, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: Terry Scidmore CPF ]

[tnframer408]

As usual, I have a different viewpoint. I believe we need to mov einto more specialty areas. Like specialy womens' dress stores, the local specialized jeweller, the local furrier--you name it. Find your niche and market to it.

Yes, we all see Vettriano in Pottery barn and such framed for $20. We simply can't compete.

So don't

Around me there are ten competitors in about eight miles--this includes a Michael's and a JoAnn's, so maybe eight of us in a three- or less person shop. As faras I can tell, a few of us specialize. I specialize in limited editions and am exclusinve in all but one line. Another specializes in 19th century engravings; still another does exquisite french matting, the fancy designs, etc etc.

A few are still ten yers or so behind, trying to compete on less price, lower thises and thatses. two of these are currently for sale and one has gone out of business.

The point: I feel those who will be successful will define and exploit a niche in their community. As stated before in other posts, we cannot compete with target, pottery barn and others in the poster art so we don't. We ofer limiteds starting at around $50 and going up to about $1200--unframed. We've selected our pubvlishers based on their variety so we can offer a little something for all.

does it work? I think so. I hear too many people come into the store and compliment us on our seledction, variety and the "O I've never seen that before". And to these people paying $50-125 for a paper limited isn't too outrageous if it's different than Neihgbor Bob.

And I'm sure my competitors have discovered their niche too and are thriving from it.

POoint is: find that niche, market to it--and spend MONEY advertising to it--and I feel you'll be profitable.

[Jay H]

This very subject came up between my wife and me last night. I am 27 and planning to open my frame shop in April. My dad owned one and was quite successful here about 15 years ago. My mom worked at one until about a year ago. That shop as well is doing quite well and only open 3 days a week. Without regard to those facts IM still scared to death to make this jump. As a result I have stumbled onto this forum and read about 200 threads so far (IM going to learn it all)!

Last night my bride said "which one of those two pictures do you think looks best?" After (from my Lazyboy) I picked the best looking one, she informed me that it came from Target for $12. Now I was under the impression that every item in my house was professionally framed. That one included. That was a remarkable 30-second lesson for me.

I can't frame that picture for $12. I can match/beat the quality, offer way more options, preserve better, and offer better service though. It is exactly those things I will focus on. This what I am gambling thousands of dollars on and truly believe.


I have read, on these very forums, both sides of this issue. 1-Do what ever it takes to get people in the door. Coupons, sale, and other aggressive sales tactics. 2-Don't worry about he BB's because they don't and can't offer what you’re selling. Any attempt to be like them is misleading and not profitable as sales cut profits.

IM unsure were I stand on those issues because experience will dictate that. But is it possible to be somewhere in the middle? I say this because I haven't seen anybody take this approach. Can you make your business more comfortable to those who may be intimated? Can you not offer coupons but advertise things like FREE ESTIMATES, No appointments necessary, walk IN’s welcome, or something like that. Now these things sound silly to us. What frame shop wouldn't welcome walk IN’s? But words like that might just make somebody feel comfortable and just stop by and check you out. I hope so because this is for now the approach I am planning. I read a thread on here where there was a discussion about the use of the phrase "Can I help you". So I hope these points don't sound too trivial. But I have an example. I live in the heart of the Bible belt. My house it less than 2 miles from 4 churches and mine is currently building another inside that circle. You can't sell porn here and no booze on Sunday. Casinos and strip clubs have been scoffed out of town long before the planning stage ever started. Yet somebody started a sexy type underwear shop here. They aggressively advertise on the radio. The ads are semi-humorous yet informative. They have been open about 2 years now and are very accepted. They give the illusion that even a guy should feel totally comfortable walking in there.

What do I know IM not even open yet? Wish me luck!
PS I will reframe that picture soon. As it turns out that is only picture that isn't custom framed. Its funny that the sitting fee was like $50 and that print was another $20 and SHE had decided to perserve that in a $12 frame! SIGH!

[JRB]

Jay, with your attitude, I think you are going to do just great.

John

[Jin Wicked]

JRB, Snopes is a very valid and long respected source of information on the internet, particularly for debunking hoaxes and email scams and the like. The letter campaigns that often "get started for a good reason" are quickly perverted by eager people forwarding them along, adding a bit of embellishment each time, if they ever were legitimate to begin with. The veterans letter isn't much better than the "please forward this so little Susie with cancer can get her last wish" and "if you forward this, Bill Gates will send you a new car" random emails.

Target's explanation sounds perfectly acceptable to me. Allowing store-level cash donations seems like a horrible idea. Target's corporate level has to be on the lookout for fraud and wrongdoing by its store managers, and it seems to me to allow cash donations at the store level would just encourage abuse or at least be a good source of temptation. It would be easy to make up nonexistant charities and pocket cash, since an invididual store doesn't have the resources to run background checks on them. Every big box store/major corporation I have worked or shopped at and inquired handled donations in a very similar manner.

Target has always been an American company, I applied to work at their corporate offices when I lived in Minneapolis, as a matter of fact.

So they didn't list veterans as a specific cause on their site, like the Snopes site said, it can easily be classified under arts or educational.

I think your feelings towards them are a big unfounded.

[Bob Carter]

Returning this thread to the original question...

What's causing the drop in the number of independent shops?

On the Should I say something thread, the question was raised if a mom should point out incorrect tecniques to the teacher. My rebuffed response was that we need to get involved in our schools. No argument.

Except, not only are we sharing our expertise with the professional involved in the class, many are now offering classes and instruction to the students (I guess to anyone, really)to show them just how really easy what we do for a living is and just how easy it will be for them to do it themselves-not just for this class project, but forever, possibly.

I applaud those willing to share expertise. We all need to do what we can-but how about on a need basis?

What does it really say about the profession that we say is so demanding and skillful that we give this expertise away to anyone wanting to not pay us for the very same service? Are we not educating a group of people to not spend money with us or to show them how simple it really is that they can do this stuff at home?

I appreciate our willingness to help, but I wonder how many plumbers are willing to show anyone how really simple it is to install a water heater?

And don't tell me that Home Depot will tell you exactly how to do it yourself and save some money without asking someone from the Professional Plumbers Association how they feel about.

Want to bet the profwessional plumbers have the same low opinion of Home Depot that we do about Michael's? And should we compare the growth of Home Depot/Michael's to the growth of the independent framers?

Sometimes the answers are so right in front of us.

Maybe we have met the enemy and it is us

[B. Newman]

Bob, there are two ways of looking at that. One is, there is a certain group of people who are going to do it themselves, regardless. They will either butcher it, or we can show them how to do it right. They may still never do it right, but at least they will know there is a difference.

Second, there are people who will never do it themselves, regardless of how simple or difficut it is. They value their time more than that. They have absolutely no inclination to learn. These are the people who keep us in business.

Personally, I educate people to show them that this is one thing that they are better off not taking time to learn how to do. It is simple - maybe - but it's only simple after you have spent hours and $ learning how to do it correctly.

If we are truly "artists" then let's convey the "specialness" of that to everyone. (I can teach anyone to do hand caning, but not very many people are going to spend 12-15 hours doing one chair. They can but they won't.)

Betty

[Ron Eggers]

When The Total Picture really was, I taught some basic photography classes. I had little fear that any of these students would be competing with my professional photographer fans. Mostly, I wanted them to enjoy their hobby a little more for themselves and buy more equipment, photofinishing and framing from me.

That strategy, by the way, was very successful - right up until I phased out the photo end of the business.

I doubt that many framers have lost business by teaching people some of the basics of proper framing. I think we miss opportunities by keeping our craft mysterious and unappreciated.

Sorry, Bob. Just this once I disagree with you. If I DID agree, I would have to recommend that all of us stop being helpful to each other - and to the novices and explorers - on The Grumble.

[Bob Carter]

Hey Ron-It's no big deal to disagree. On some levels, I actually agree with some of what Betty and you suggest.

However, back to the question: Do you think independent plumbers help their businesses by teaching how easy it is to install a water heater or should they get that $95 because they are professionals.

How about the floral designer showing how easy it is to "throw some flowers" together to make a display; does that "demystify" their business or does that $60 centerpiece really look like it should cost that much.

One of the biggest objections to people spending their money with us is that it so expensive to get us to do their work.

Are we helping or hurting ourselves by showing how really easy it is?

And to take the emotion out of the argument, let's use the plumbing trade for the argument.

And you know, Ron, both of us are going to continue to offer advice-it's the nature of the beast. But the question was why the indies arew disappearring and I think this might be a slight (not total)contributor

[Maryann]

One of the results of teaching students how to cut mats and proper mounting has been an increase in mat and material sales.
The art department has a fletcher mat cutter. The university book store sells paper mats. But after they learn how paper affects original art they come to us for the rag mats even though they cost more. Sometimes they cut their mats on the university mat cutter and come to us for a frame. Some of what we gain is just goodwill but that's okay too. What goes around will come around.

[Less]

Well Bob, maybe it's not that easy after all. We need to be good designers, good with people, good marketers, good at book keeping, good technicians, stay educated, learn about the lasted equipment, the latest accepted practices, the latest design trends, a bit of an art and history expert, we need to learn computer skills, restoration knowledge, and **** , we better love what we do or it will show.

Last but not least Bob, lucky for you and a few others, most importantly, we better learn how to be good at business.

That last item, I bet, is what is really putting most of those people who think that is so easy scurrying into their basements and garages.

I think the smart and successful framers know there is nothing easy about being successful in the framing business.

[ 12-10-2003, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: lessafinger ]