opening frame shop

[David W]

I've been framing for only six months and I'm opening my own shop and gallery. It sounds a little crazy but I moved and was unable to get a framing job in my new area and figured it's one way to really learn the business, to sink or swim.
They say there are no stupid questions so I hope this is no exception. I'm meeting with a sales rep for the leading(and the only weekly) distributer to my area. I need to buy almost all my equipment and have a source for all my mats, glass, moulding etc. The shop I worked in went through Larson&Juhl for moulding and supplies. I haven't decided what mouldings I will carry, but I'm wondering should moulding come from the manufacturers or from distributers or both. These are all questions I could ask the sales rep but hoped that if they appear stupid, the grumble would be more forgiving. Some general insight on the matter would be very helpful.
Thanks
Dave

[dns ynko]

This seems odd to me, but....I would say most framers get from the person distributing the moulding or what have you. Unless you have a large order then you would not get directly from the manufacturer. Some of these places are all over the world. Don't forget you can always have things shipped via ups or fed ex from anywhere. I work in a very small shop and we get stuff from Germany. This is directly from the manufacturer, because there is not a distributor here in the states.

Welcome to the Grumble. Good luck with the new shop. No questions are stupid, unless I ask them. Remember that one, it will help in the future.

d

[katman]

You might want to consider finding a good place to buy joined frames since you are just starting out. That way you can begin to pace your equipment purchases and concentrate on design, mat cutting and fitting. As you build your business yo could consider a saw/chopper and underpinner investment.

Decor and Picture Framing magazines have plenty of ads for suppliers. You should look at some samples and prices and think about your target customer.

[McPhoto]

When you order from L/J (or others) you can request "Wedging" or "thumbnails" - You get chop pricing and a small additional charge for the wedges. What the distributor does is route out a keyhole in the back of the frame - then you glue moulding together & insert the wedges - Pretty slick (most of the time ;) ) Good luck & welcome to the grumble!

[Bill Henry-]

Both Larson-Juhl <u>and</u> Don Mar Frame and Moulding serve your area. You may only be able to get deliveries once a month, though.

I would suggest you do not limit yourself to one distributor. Larson has some nice mouldings and their quality control is excellant, but they are pricey.

Don Mar carries stuff whose quality more middle of the road, but a whole lot cheaper.

For your tools and hardware, check out United Manufacturers Supplies.

[jframe]

I hope you will also consider joining PPFA and going to Las Vegas for the next 2 framing conferences to take all the framing and business classes you can cram into your schedule. I believe they are in January and March. The trade magazines will have the info.

Good luck and welcome to the Grumble.

[JPete]

Remember the rep is a sales person and although they are most often helpful, they are selling themselves and their company.

Call several suppliers and ask for a quote on equipment..let them know that you are not playing games and want their best price to begin with. You might also check the local glass companies.

Good luck.

[ 11-20-2003, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: JPete ]

[David W]

thanks for response and the welcome. my meeting went very well and you're information helpful. I have attended conferences, the New England framing academy, read all the trade magazines, and worked in a shop. I've learned an enormous amount but there are still many grey areas. Although they are slowly turning a murky brown.

[Jim Miller]

Originally posted by David W:
I've been framing for only six months and I'm opening my own shop and gallery. It sounds a little crazy...
Dave Yes, I agree it sounds a little crazy.

[Jason Maranto]

Starting a business under these circumstances is not a route I would recommend... if nobody will hire you as a framer that usually means your are either not qualified or they don’t have the business to support an employee (in which case you will only be diluting the available customer base even further) however if you have already committed yourself then all I can do is to help you not fall into the same traps I did....


#1 - buy chop ONLY, to start... getting length is a false economy unless you buy bulk, and you shouldn't buy bulk without having very clear ideas of what your customer base actually wants and how much in the way of sales you can count on.

This one thing alone could probably save you several thousand dollars in start up cost and may actually save your business from becoming a first year casualty.


Minimum equipment to start (IMHO):

Manual underpinner (will definitely pay for itself)
Manual mat cutter (will definitely pay for itself)
Glass/Plexi/Board cutter (will definitely pay for itself)
Cold vacuum mounting press (probably won't use this much but not having anything sucks)

On the subject of mounting:

#2 use canned spray adhesive until you know whether the purchase on a compressor and spray gun is worth the investment... in my business I only mount something down about once every 2 weeks. (I now wish I had saved the $500 for the compressor/ gun combo)

A hot mounting press is an unnecessary expense and is actually harmful to many materials, not to mention expensive.


#3 don't pay for samples, and negotiate better pricing with your main distributor(s)

You'll have the luxury of being able to afford to buy samples (closed corner, matboard or otherwise) if you are successful... and nearly every distributor will massage the prices for you if you ask.


These are the regrets I have... don't be me.


Jason.

[Emibub]

Just as a cautionary tale, I had 16 years framing experience which included managing shops before I purchased my business. Knowing how to frame or even how to manage a shop has very little to do with owning a business. I'd get all my little financial ducks in a row first before I ventured much further. Of course, I'm assuming you have already taken care of that, just throwing it out there. You mentioned "might as well sink or swim", you don't want to start out with an anchor around your neck, you will be set up to sink for sure.

[ 11-22-2003, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: Emibub ]

[Less]

Get a real job first.

Save enough money to live for a year.

Take classes, study for the CPF whether you take the test or not.

Read about and take some business courses. Get some advice from your local SBA.

Read everything on the Grumble Bob Carter has to say and apply his recommendations.

Otherwise, you would have made more money working at Wal-Mart for many years. Or, you will run out of money before you learn how to correct your mistakes, or you enjoy living in poverty.

[JRB]

Dave, Sounds to me like the dice have been rolled already. I admire your courage and I hope you pull it off. Anytime you have a question, don't hesitate to post it on The Grumble, we will try to help as much as we can. If you want, you can call me or e-mail me if you don't want to go public. Bob Carter is an excellent source for information as well. I think overall, you will find just about all Grumblers will be more than willing to offer tips and advise.

John

[lise]

I think what you are doing is not only admirable but very achievable. I'm not saying that it's going to be easy but that is the only road we knew.
We had the results in our minds of what we wanted to accomplish and we put a plan in place. We organized the legal stuff first, went to framing school, bought equipment, set up our shop, were on the phone every second day with our instructors, cold called like crazy, and handled everything on a case by case basis.
We also made sure we had a years worth of money. My husband worked part time in constuction for four months to get us by.
We knew from the beginning that what we were building was ours alone and never even considered working for someone else.
Good luck with everything.

[1 in town]

Watch out for Larson Juhl. They have good products, but may dump you for some made up reason. I was with LJ for 10+ years and suddenly received a letter that my account was being discontinued because I did not have a store front. My bills were paid to take advantage of the 2% discount and I was buying about $7000 a year. Never heard from a sales rep in 10+ years unless I called. I'm home based and the only frame shop in a 25 mile radius. Since then I have set up with three other distributers and enjoy their relationship. Expand your horizons and don't lock in with one company. I pay very little if any for corner samples. Good luck with your venture.

[arstis]

my account was being discontinued because I did not have a store front I have had a retail store front for 23 years.
Over the years I have learned to only buy from companies that have requirements like Larson-Juhl (retail store front not in someone's home) I encourage all the other Grumblers to do the same.

I belive in competition but not unfair competition. I am paying $3700 a month in rent plus utilities plus phone etc, etc, etc. Someone working from home could offer the same product for much less than I could.

I spent about $30,000 with Larson-Juhl last year.

Thank you Larson-Juhl!

[B. Newman]

Hey Arstis, you tell 'em! ;)

Betty

PS - that's a real professional looking domain name ya got there! But it kept telling me that it couldn't come up. :confused: There was a "warning blue screen" that said it was busy...

[Mitch]

round four

[lise]

Nothing unfair about selling to home based businesses. Home based businesses have to work a heck of alot harder to get half the business of retail store front. Obviously, "artis" you have never come from such "humble" beginnings.
I will never understand nor accept the uppity and unfair discrimination that certain suppliers and colleagues still have to this day about home based framers.
Every other profession such as artist, graphic designer, consultant, (I could go on and on) does not encounter or tolerate this type of prejudice. Why should we??!! Are we not professionals? Whining about "unfair" competion doesn't cut it these days.
Sorry about the ranting but we worked for over 5 years building our business from home and now have 2 retail store fronts and I applaud anyone that can make a go of it from home.

[gemsmom]

David, Since you are located in Maine, I don't know that you have too many sources available to you for staples like glass, mats, foamcore, and mouldings. The major distributors for New England are Framer's Market, Don Mar, Armel, and Larson. All offer free delivery if you are on their route and you meet their minimum. I'll bet Larson is the only one with free delivery to your location. If that is the case, I would go with them. Since you are new, you might have trouble meeting minimums if you deal with too many distributors. Larson has all you need to get started. I wouldn't not consider them just because someone doesn't like the way they do business.

[B. Newman]

Originally posted by Pamela DeSimone, CPF:
I wouldn't not consider them just because someone doesn't like the way they do business. (Seriously) If I could do business with them, I would. I may not like their policy as it is, but it is their business, they can do as they please.

Betty

[Ron Eggers]

Kinda careening off topic here, but there's one thing I've never understood about all the animosity toward home-based framers (which, by the way, is not a common sentiment on The Grumble - probably due to the presence of some very high-quality home-based framers here.)

If home-based framers have such an overwhelming and unfair financial advantage over store-front framers, why aren't ALL of us home-based?

Personally, I'll take any unfair advantage I can get.

[JPete]

Originally posted by Ron Eggers:
there's one thing I've never understood about all the animosity toward home-based framers (which, by the way, is not a common sentiment on The Grumble - probably due to the presence of some very high-quality home-based framers here.)
Oh my! Ron, things have changed since the early days of the Grumble and that's no cock'n bull. There has been so much discussion about all of this that it finally wore out.

I agree that we have some very high class framers here.

[ 12-04-2003, 12:16 AM: Message edited by: JPete ]