Big Boxes and You

[DTWDSM]

Everyone mainly talks about the "M" store when talking about big boxes here. I was wondering are any of you located near (block or less) of a big box that carrys home decor like Target, Bed Bath & Beyond, Pier One, Crate and Barrel, Pottery Barn, ect? If so how has that affected your business either in a good or bad way?

[Framerguy]

Tim,

I don't have any BB's close to me but I would guess that there are art items in every one of them that would be bought by a framer's customer at one time or another.

This has been hashed over so many times and dissected and analysed that I wonder what more there is to say about the subject??

If a framer worries about such shopping habits of his/her customers that are completely out of the framer's control, it would only lead to more frustration and more worry for what??

YOu can't do anything about the BB's presence in your area anymore than they about your presence. So you offer the best quality product and service and let those who are in need of those services visit your shop and those who want the blue light specials go where they choose. Not all of my customers are in need of quality framing all the time. Sometimes they just see something in a BB that catches their eye and they impulse buy. So that is how life goes.

Framerguy

[SCFramer527]

Hi Tim -- We are within 2 blocks of Target, Bed Bath & Beyond, and a "home decorating store" called Gothic Arts, across the street from another independent frame shop as well as AC Moore, in the same parking lot as Pier 1, and our strip center backs up to Michaels. Some days we feel like there may be a little competition in the area.

Don't know that I can actually quantify effect on our business. I know lots of folks, some of our customers, pick up relatively inexpensive framed items in the decorating stores, but for the most part those aren't the same type/quality items we offer. And lots of those customers mention the difference. A great thing about being behind Michaels is that there are lots of people wh come to our retail area shopping for custom framing. Many of them come to us after their experiences over there, lots of customers are referred to us by them, and often when people leave our store and go to Michaels... they come back.

Being a fairly new "grumbler" I haven't seen lots of the BB related threads and probably have made the same kind of comments that have been posted ad nauseum. But neither Michaels or the others ever really worry us; they were all here before we moved in.

[Ron Eggers]

Since wall space is at a premium in my current location (sacrificed to gain work space) I have all but given up trying to sell pre-framed wall decor. Target, Pier One and several others do it better than I can.

The same is true with my photo frames. I never really felt right about them to begin with, so it's not an item I particularly miss.

I use my walls to sell custom framing, now. Duh!

[Bob Carter]

Ron brings up a great point about the big boys being able to sell framed art because they do it better than him. He uses Target, Pier One and others as examples.

I have been commisioned to do a market study to present to PPFA convention in Feb about this very thing, so I am knee deep in research right now.

I'll share a couple of facts that are staggering. The industry is projected at around $35 billion dollars. About what we expect to pay for the upkeep and reconstruction of Iraq this year. You know the same billions that politicians rail about nightly on the news?

Yet, this is the same $35 billion that we so casually abdicate to the big boys simply because they do it better? Okay, show of hands-How many of us think the service we get at Target is better than the service we give? How many of us think the consumer gets a better selection of prints or selection of framing at Target than we give?

I hope I'm not the only one that thinks we do it better than these guys.

However, on National average of that $35 Billion, only 14% of all wall decor is spent with (and I am combining the two sources because it's emabarrassing small otherwise)frame shops AND galleries. Only the internet at 2% was worse.

We have abdicated all that market share to people that simply can not do it as well as we can.

I know the reasons and they aren't pretty and it seems that we are simply unable to compete by choice.

I'm not saying Ron's decision is wrong. He is a smart enough an operator to understand that his sales didn't justify the allocation of inventory and space to a non-producing line (in our stores, it represents over 26% of our business and pays the majority of our fixed overhead). But $35 Billion that we saying "Here Big Box, take it and kick me in the teeth and rob my customer base while you are at it".

It may be beyond a point of no return, I'm not sure. But Tim is most correct to have some concerns. It isn't enough to simply rely on our strengths. We have to find ways to increase our strengths.

Nobody would argue with adding gift lines and such to increase business. Our good friend, John Ranes could give a class on it (okay, cheap plug; he does give a class on his success). But do you think more people would assume the average frame shop would have imported glass Christmas ornaments or German Nutcrackers than they would have more wall decor? It's a natural expectation

If we don't become more attuned retailers and provide what the market wants at prices that they want to pay, someone else will.

In fact, someone else does. To the tune of $35 Billion.

This is one retailer that wants his share of that $35 Billion. Now, what are we going to do about it?

[ 11-04-2003, 01:03 PM: Message edited by: Bob Carter ]

[JudyN]

Like Bob Carter... We at our store ARE doing something about it. We have added many many gift items. We have hundreds of photo frames. We have been working at it for the last year and a half.
It does take time to find your niche. Look at the Targets and Bed and Bath, Pottery Barn, ect. look at their web sites ..what are they selling? They are selling an IMAGE a LIFESTYLE for their customers.
People want a simple way of buying things. Our customers want our help. We have to show them what they want for their lifestyle.
The secret is keeping up with the times and showing them the right things at the right time.

[Bob Shirk MCPF]

Bob Carter it is interesting that you bring up the question of why we do not sell more framed art. I will be very interested to hear or read your findings on selling framed art.

Maryann and I were discussing this just a few days ago as well as why we do not see as many custom-framing customers as the big boxes. We came up with a few ideas that I will share with my fellow Grumblers. When I talk about “big boxes” I am talking about places like Ikea, Bed Bath and Beyond, Pier 1, Target, Wal-Mart, K Mart, Michaels, A C Moore, and Ben Franklin. I’m sure that all of you could add some other large chain stores that sell some or all of the following: framed art, ready made frames, custom framing.

We believe that the anonymity of shopping in a big box makes it easier for some people. In other words no one knows me so if I walk away without buying I will not be embarrassed. If I buy something strange or cheap no one that I know will know.

Appearance may be a deterrent to shoppers. Our stores look out of date or stodgy or to high end (expensive).

National advertising and marketing affects peoples buying habits. Many of these big boxes have television commercials, flyers in the Sunday paper, radio ads and so on that a small business does not have the capital to produce and distribute.

There is safety in buying what and where many others buy. It must be ok Martha said it’s ok, my neighbor shops there, my aunt got one just like it.

Customers are drawn to big boxes to look at other things and the interesting framed art is an impulse buy. Much of this framed art is very inexpensive or perceived to be inexpensive.

The big box has very large selection of inexpensive or what the customer believes are inexpensive photo frames and ready-mades. Many of these are sold at retail for less than a small shop can purchase them wholesale.

I understand where the sales are going and I understand some of the reasons why they are going to big boxes. What I need to do is come up with ideas on how to take some of that market share.

[AWG]

I appreciate and greatly anticipate Bob Carter's look at framed art. I think Bob Shirk is right in a lot of ways. Here's what I see:

BBs and anonymity - as custom framers we have the opportunity to develop relationships with our customers. We know (or should)what's hanging in their homes and can tailor our offerings and designs to that. BBs can't do that.

Our store's appearance - all large retail organizations have planograms, appearance standards, and changing displays. So should we as professional framer/retailers. Just changing the window to reflect the season is not enough. Move your mouldings on the wall - highlight new ones close to your design table; showcase framed art samples in your moulding sample wall; promote the stuff that sets you/us apart. If your fixtures are old or outdated, freshen them up or replace them. Claiming you're the best while the shop looks old and outdated sends a contradictory message. We sell looks and designs - not too many people out there still want 1960 designs.

Advertising - yeah, we could have put an extra bunch of money in our pocket if we didn't advertise this year - but we'd probably be out of business. One of the best lessons we've learned this year - you absolutley CANNOT afford to not advertise. No advertising = death. You CAN do it yourself. Microsoft Word and a professional printer (not Kinko's) make a great combination. Our Fall Newsletter cost us about $700 including this year. Our printer not only printed it but folded, tabbed and mailed it. The image enhancing effect of a professionally produced newsletter cannot be underestimated.

So how do we beat the big boxes for wall decor?
Stock prints? (Got 500 in the garage at home. They're yours, cheap. Just ask) Buy art we think is cool that someone alse might hate? (I'd rather sell art on consignment) Make cheap samples? (Goes against the "sell the best" philosophy) These are the answers I hope Bob C. addresses in his research. We CAN'T produce a $49 framed 24x36 like Garden Ridge.

Until then, we CAN sell our services and our unique products. We CAN promote our businesses in a professional, modern and cost-effective way. We CAN educate or customers on design. I'm interested to learn from BobC on how we CAN compete with these BigGuys for wall decor. I certainly am anxious for my share of the $35 billion.

Tony

[B. Newman]

I talk about framing everywhere I go. Last week I had a doctor's appointment (for myself this time. :eek: ) As I went down the hall, I noticed a lot (more than normal) framed pieces on the walls.

As we went into the room I said to the girl, "gee, I wish I had your alls framing business..." She replied, "Oh, do you do framing?"

I told her that I did, to which she said, "I'm glad to know that. I've been having a hard time finding someone to frame my diploma." ( :confused: )

I asked where she lived and she said "West Knoxville." Folks, there's 40 jillion frame shops in West Knoxville. Independants, franchises, and at least 2 BB.

Of course we could make some remark about "stupid customers" or "just look in the phone book, dufus" but what I believe she was saying is "I have no relationship with someone who does framing, and I don't know anyone else who does either." (I don't know why she didn't ask the doctors.)

I pick up more of my customers through "personal contact" than any advertising I do. Then I spend all my marketing money on the customers/contacts that I do have rather than "shotgun" advertising.

As I was sharing with some business friends of mine recently, one of the best articles on retailing I've read in a good while was in the October issue of Entrepreneur Magazine.

http://www.entrepreneur.com/mag/article/0,1539,310561,00.html

It features a store called Anthropologie, which I had never heard of before then. One statement in that article said, "Anthropologie doesn't sell merchandise--it sells a lifestyle." I like that.

Read the article. You'll learn something.

Betty

[Bob Carter]

Hi Bob-I'm not trying to be cute or coy, but two things prevent me from doing anything definitive at this point: The first is I haven't finished doing my research and I never go off half-cocked (okay, in Business, anyway) and the second is that I am being compensated for this and I have to respect their considerations. Findings should be published at the PPFA convention and I think it inappropriate to release the overall findings prior.Take the class (I think it is a class) and you can be the first to get this information.

However, there are things that are really so basic as to not to violate any spirit of my analysis. The most important is that we simply can not rely upon the thought that we are better than our competition and those people that don't understand that, should go elsewhere for their wall decor.

They do vote with their feet and they have voted 35 Billion times at our competitors stores. The problem is as they shop elsewhere they tend to forget about us.

There are two strategic implications from this research that I feel compelled to share. The first deals with where people shop and why. One obvious opportunity for growth based on the explosion of home furnishing retailers offering framed art. I will quote from the research: "These decorating-driven consumers are not seeking specific art, rather they are opportunistic, picking up art in stores where they are shopping for other items. A key strategic opportunity for more specialized art marketers and framers may be establishing custom art and framing kiosks in home stores, like Bed, Bath and Beyond or Linens 'n' Things."

The second deals with where people purchase unframed art. The research indicates that 18% responded that they buy unframed prints from places such as Wal-Mart, Target, JC Penneys's and Sears. Ethan Allen,Bed Bath and Beyond, Pier 1 etc. came in next at 13%. Art Galleries and frame shops, the traditional place that one thinks as a source for art and prints, was used by only 12% of the respondents.

Not only are we ripe for others to do what we do in their stores where more people shop for other things, the consumers don't even think of us as a primary site when they do need what we sell. Can you imagine that consumers think of Sears or Ethan Allen for unframed art before us?

[ 11-04-2003, 06:49 PM: Message edited by: Bob Carter ]

[JPete]

Bob, Are you also including the Home Interior Party Plans? In rural areas like ours people do buy at parties and we have reframed and repaired these faded out prints as well as trying to put new prints in the plastic without a way to attach the work.

[ 11-04-2003, 08:28 PM: Message edited by: JPete ]

[Maryann]

Home Interiors are a biggie here too - not as much as they have been in the past though. People like to choose the arrangement of pictures, spend $500 on cheap art (not inexpensive - cheap) and know that they haven't made a designing mistake.
Bob, We're planning on Las Vegas. I'll be in the first row at your class!

[AWG]

The first deals with where people shop and why. One obvious opportunity for growth based on the explosion of home furnishing retailers offering framed art. I will quote from the research: "These decorating-driven consumers are not seeking specific art, rather they are opportunistic, picking up art in stores where they are shopping for other items. A key strategic opportunity for more specialized art marketers and framers may be establishing custom art and framing kiosks in home stores, like Bed, Bath and Beyond or Linens 'n' Things."

The scary implication of this is that it STILL leaves out the small independent retailer. Organizations like Bed Bath and Beyond and Linens n Thngs, etc. aren't going to be dealing with people like us. Large, centralized, BB organizations like BA Framer and Corners will get this kind of business. BAF is already doing this type of "kiosk" business and has for years at places like Garden Ridge and ACMoore.

So people don't think of frame shops and art galleries as the place to buy art? That's a truly scary thought :eek: Maybe I'll start taking my film to the drugstore :confused:

So HOW DO we differentiate ourselves?

I wasn't planning on a trip to Vegas but maybe I should rethink that idea....

Tony

[Bob Carter]

Hi Tony-Don't plan a trip to Vegas because you think I have a silver bullet, because I don't (yet). I was asked to do a study and analyze the trends and report on my findings.

Now, you can best believe I will have some opinions and we may all try some trial and error. But, step one is understanding the problem.

I agree the scary part is what happens if these behemoths start "kiosking" our business, but I won't be the only person seeing this opportunity. But, the fact that we are so fragmented and so independent makes us such easy targets. We simply have no economies of scale.

The non-availability of attaining any critical mass takes so many tools away from us; namely money. We can't even successfully fund a FACTS program.

It's not all doom and gloom, though. There are just some things that we do better than any Big Box. We need to look at the Warren's of the industry, the Bluestone's, the Goltz's and find what really works well, develop a higher level of sophistication about the way we run our business, and take some of the same ideas (and pricing strategies)of the Big Guys and make them work for us. If it works well for any of us, it ought to be examined to see if we can make it work for the rest of us.

There will be some Strategic Advantages we can use to our benefit. We just have to be smart enough to find them

[Ron Eggers]

In fairness, getting out of decorative wall art and photo frames was not a big switch for me. Neither has ever been a big deal for me, and now they're no deal at all. I would make a lousy case study for Bob.

I think any of us could sell these things if we made them a priority. The reasons I think Target can do it better than I can are these:

</font> They buy huge, so their selection and prices are better than mine.</font> If you get the urge to buy some wall decor at 9:45 on Wednesday night, they're open. I'm not.</font> Their service can't compete with mine, but we're talking about commodity items. People pick them up impulsively while shopping for cough drops and blank CDs.</font>

[Peter Bowe]

This will be my 16th Christmas as a frame shop owner and my 28th year associated with the picture framing industry.

I have come to the conclusion over the last couple of years that, all of a sudden, everything is different in our business. I believe we must re-examine all our assumptions if we are to survive.

One of the assumptions I have been pondering is the notion that people come to a frameshop looking for art. These are some of the conclusions I have come to:

1) Almost all of my customers come to me with art as opposed to shopping for art. They are on a specific mission.

2) A capital "A" Art gallery is a business quite different than picture framing with a different skill set and a different customer profile.

3) Decorative art is everywhere - big boxes, catalogs, discount houses and-particularly with posters-on the internet.

4) Art taste is more fragmented than was formerly true. It is harder to find pieces that will sell repeatedly.

5)Mass market framed art is not as bad as it used to be. Although we may sneer at the guts from the front it is pretty good. The offshore stuff is produced at a cost we can't touch.

6) There is a disposable element to a lot of current home decorating. While we may be framing for the ages a whole lot of people are decorating for the momement. Our consumer society is fueled by cheap imports which are often discarded rather than made into heirlooms.

7) Trends move really fast these days. Yesterdays art goes stale as fast as yesterdays bread and holds its value just about as well.

These conclusions led to our decision to stop carrying unframed art and print catalogs as of this summer. We display about 50 framed prints and mirrors but we regard these as sales tools as much as merchandise.

I don't regard this as ceding territory to the big guys as much as I do focusing on my core business. I make a point of visiting target,michaels, pottery barn, joanns et al on a regular basis. They spend millions on merchandising and I'm not above stealing any ideas I can.

I am not ever going to be able to beat them on a chinese container load of cast resin mirrors but I can do a 8ply collage mat in a ramin black better than they can. As an independent located in a small town I have to be realistic about my niche. Art is not my core business and I can't figure away to do it faster,better,cheaper or slicker than the big guys.

Peter Bowe
Saline Picture Frame Co.
darn good framing, tasteful accessories & gifts but no prints.

[DTWDSM]

Well I didn't think that the conversations would go the way that they have. The thing that I wonder is that can we use the Big Boxes to improve our business? The BB's draw many people to their stores and if we are near them can we take advantage of that traffic?

Will we be able to compete on price...most of the time no, but sometimes yes. Can we compete on service...I woud guess in 99% of the time yes.

When we have customers that say they can get the same print framed at Target for 59.95 and why do you have it for 149.95, we say that you are getting something custom made for you and the person waiting to go through the checkout will not have the same picture on the wall as you do. Most people want to have artwork that they can say was "custom framed" rather than "off the rack". The main problem is the pricing, we need to figure out how to frame the same prints with a better design at the right price points.

I guess i really wonder if the BB's are really that bad. Yes they are going to put some of the "mom and pop" shops out of business, but those who have the right business sense, and luck should be able to compete.

I did not want to get into the "M" subject in my post but I see them helping the industry, they advertise more than any of us and once someone starts to use them, they will eventually leave. Most people buy on a good, better, best system. I think that "M" is a good, it is our job to show and educate our customers that we are the better and/or best.

[Barb Pelton]

Originally posted by Peter Bowe:
6) There is a disposable element to a lot of current home decorating. While we may be framing for the ages a whole lot of people are decorating for the momementThe very point I was going to make.
People will frame grandmother's eyeglasses or reframe her old print that hung forever in the living room, and our premium price is good for those things, but for their own decor, it appeals to be able to redecorate every 5 years.
I'm convinced we are living in a ADA (attention deficient addicts) world. It must change, always new!

The stuff doesn't have to be quality to last 5 years. It just has to look good.

Can we compete with that? How? Do we WANT to compete with that? OR, do we want to try to change what it is people would want for their homes? Maybe we should just concentrate on what it is we do well and try to expand THAT base?

Interesting discussion. We've certainly had it many times before, but each time we may come closer to understanding the changes we are facing.

[B. Newman]

"Whether you're framing for the ages, or decorating for the moment, Newman Valley Studio can fill your needs..."
Yep, I think I may just plagiarize that phrase! :D

As for the changing of our business models, what do you know about "roll ups?"
(No Ron, not the fruit kind! tongue.gif )

This is what happened when so many "Mom and Pop" video stores were "rolled up" into Blockbusters. This idea just recently bombed though with florists.

There was an excellent article about this a few months ago in (I think,) INC magazine. If anyone is interested, I'll look for it. The article covered the florist industry which is mostly small and very fragmented, much like ours. In this case, however, what worked for video stores "wilted" with florists (ugh.)

But when I read the article I said "whoa, our industry is ripe for something like this."

Bob, William, any of your "degreed" business people see this happening in our little corner of the world?

Betty

[Maryann]

Frankenthread comment:
Bob Carter said:
Don't plan a trip to Vegas because you think I have a silver bulletI have NEVER attended a trade show that didn't more than pay for itself. Trade shows always recharge you and give you plenty of ideas that when you follow through will more than pay for the trip....not to mention show specials. What I can't afford is the time. Always need more time......

[MAX]

Betty, I think our industry is just plain "too small" for a rollup to be successfully pulled off. Nevertheless, I watched my high school buddy/college roomate fail to rollup the pest control industry over here up and down the coast. Here's what I learned:

Rollups usually occur in highly fragmented industries consisting of numerous businesses, none of which are dominant within the industry. Alot of times, small, mom & pop-type businesses which have been run by a single family for a generation or two are prime candidates for rollups, because the owners want liquidity and are interested in selling their businesses or consolidating with others. There are usually two ways to go about a rollup:

1) A Loose federation. This is what my buddy attempted to do, and what I think would be the most likely way it would be attempted in our industry. This type of rollup pools the businesses of many owners without consolidat#ing operations. The owners essentially cash-out for some combination of cash and future stock (which, after the inevitable IPO, is gonna make everyone rich), but still retain all the day-to-day management responsibilities for their shops. Each participating business continues to operate independently in its particular market, with no attempt to create a national identity. The group usually retains the existing management teams to maintain the personal relationships that helped build the businesses.

The problem is, for the loose federation approach to work, each store management team must be competent. Also, a rollup taking this approach depends on the individual growth of its member firms plus new acquisitions as its primary way to increase equity value. Such acquisitions are generally paid for with stock, which helps keep company borrowing to a minimum. But when the number of acquisitions declines, the share price of the new company may also decline, and, well . . .. you get the idea.

2)Consolidation. This is what Huizinga did with BFI, then Blockbuster, then in the used-car business. This approach involves consolidating operations and actively seeking synergies among all participants. By consolidating operations and cross-selling products and services, the new group tries reduce costs and grow revenue internally. This approach often causes higher margins and accelerated earnings that the market rewards with higher share prices. But you've got to not only aquire the stores, you've also got to run them. This type of rollup is highly leveraged, requires a high amount of working capital and needs to attain scale quickly.

In our industry, the probability is that the entity created as a result of this type of rollup would be pretty darn small considering the degree of leverage involved, and would be quickly forced into bankruptcy under the weight of the debt. This (without reading the article you refeered to) is what probably happened to the attempted floral industry rollup.

My buddy's conclusion was this: While rollups can be lucrative when properly executed, they are very difficult because the consolidator must integrate many different businesses and arrange financing for many deals, while still remaining competitive within the industry.

MAX

[Bob Carter]

Betty has a great point about florists and I did a study on trade associations and I focused on FTD.

Florists carry a product that no one needs, the average consumer thinks is expensive and is/was run by a bunch of highly independent Mom and Pop types. Sounds pretty much like us, eh?

Except that the FTD logo is one of the most highly recognized logos in the world. FTD is one of the true successes stories in marshalling all these small, indies into a viable marketing tool.

Open the yellow pages in your community and look at the ads for florists vs picture framers. Look at the number of times you see the PPFA logo vs the FTD logo. Look at the breadth of ads in size and professionalism.

Don't tell me we are fine they way we are.

[B. Newman]

Originally posted by Bob Carter:
Open the yellow pages in your community and look at the ads for florists vs picture framers. Look at the number of times you see the PPFA logo vs the FTD logo. Look at the breadth of ads in size and professionalism.

Bob, I have always felt that "Professional Picture Framer's Association" should be spelled out in the ads. Not many people know what PPFA stands for, but if you're a member, at least use the logo.

I have seen framers' ads (that I knew were members) in the trade magazines in conjunction with an article on them, and many times the ad didn't even mention PPFA! One particular time, the person was the president of the local chapter.

FTD is well known because it is marketed well by both the association and the membership!

It can't be all one or the other.

Betty

[Rogatory]

Today a customer came in from H.L. and said there was a line and a wait for about an hour.
Sure wish I had that problem.

She bought two 8x10s and one 16x20 cruddy ready mades and was to have them mat and mount photos. She gave me the work order for the two 8x10s that H.L. was going to do for her:
Mat------------$6.30
Reg. clear-----$2.00
Acid Free fcb--$1.80
$10.10
X2
--------------------
$20.20!!!
Nothing about mounting, fitting or anything! I understand how they do it, paper mats, truck loads of glass, so on. But I can't even come close to matching those prices.

The 16x20 she brought in from HL was a real pos but she liked it anyway, so I will "repair" it for $25. I'm going to double mat, glaze, mount and fit it for $130. And after much persuasion I talked her in to getting the others and bringing them here.

The reasons she changed her mind on not letting the BB do her stuff was 1)Service 2)Expertise 3)wide selection etc. etc.

I'm ALMOST tempted to stand in line at the BB's and hand out framing 101 pamphlets along with my business cards until I get thrown out. Ethics be damned! Then I'll go outside and catch all the disgruntled customers. (Until I get thrown out)
Just a thought.
:D

[Kit]

Bob, please consider this an invitation to come visit Creative Expressions as part of your research.

(Ooooh, yeah! Minnesota in the winter. You'll love it.)

We DO sell lifestyle.

We sell quite alot of framed art in our shop. Usually it is presented as part of a grouping that includes furniture, floral arrangements and various bibelots.

Designing pieces for the sales floor is one of my favorite parts of the job.

Disposable? Yes

Pricey? Yes

Fun? You betcha.

Kit

[Bob Carter]

Hi Kit-If I get to your part of the woods, count on me dropping by. I love to look at all concepts-heck, I know I have even "appropriated" a few concepts on occassion. I'm sure we can all learn from most everyone.

But, as a part of my research, I must ask a few questions: You are undoubtedly proud of your efforts, but may we quantify your results?

What is your annual sales expectation and how does that factor in your market? Are you the biggest gun in town, middle of the road, specialized boutique?

Consumers vote with their dollars and the only person (in business, anyway)that counts is the consumer. Do the consumers in your arena agree with your position with their dollars?

If they do, then we ought to have Kit share some of the things they do up there. We all could use the help.

Specific dollars are an easy way to help validate any concept. I hope you will share this "real world" data. It could be quite informative

[Kit]

Bob, drop by anytime.

(If it's anytime in the next six months, pack long johns and a couple extra pair of wool socks.)

I'll compile the data you requested so that I can send you real numbers.

Kit

[John Ranes II, CPF, GCF]

Originally posted by Bob Carter:
.......Nobody would argue with adding gift lines and such to increase business. Our good friend, John Ranes could give a class on it (okay, cheap plug; he does give a class on his success). But do you think more people would assume the average frame shop would have imported glass Christmas ornaments or German Nutcrackers than they would have more wall decor? It's a natural expectation........Bob,

I'm responding to your comments here, not because I take offense nor do I find them in error....rather it is a great link to marketing, identity and growth. (Although this thread is entitled "Big Boxes and You", we are really talking about "Who we are and how much of the framed art product are we selling?")

I don't need to validate the success of what we've achieved with alternative gift lines. As Bob knows, we've had a fair amount of serious success. But what is worth discussion on this topic, is WHY has this worked, and WHY have we noticed a substantial increase in our framed art sales over the past three years......perhaps more than in the previous 26 years?

I believe it has to do with a couple of key identity/marketing issues.....</font> The Nutcrackers, Smokers, Pyramids, Glass ornaments that we sell are elite items. That is they are well made, top of line, and require some education on the consummers' part to make the purhase happen.</font> They match the quality level of the framing we sell. Upper end framing, good design, excellent craftsmanship, superior products = the equivalent in our gift selection.</font> Less expensive Christmas collectibles and gift lines exist......We let the Department Stores and competitive Christmas shops handle those items. That means that we are the source for the "better stuff".</font> The typical upper end custom frame shop customer has more disposible income, enjoys the shopping experience, has taste, is more educated and is traveled. Those demographics tell us that we need to sell more niche items to these people.</font>
I believe that the broad range of custom framing - $19.94 to $895.00 encompases a very broad spectrum of folks.

I have found that by targeting our customers and providing additional products to their needs and taste has proven successful. As I mentioned before, I see more art sales than in previous years....probably up 15-20%, and mostly finer pieces, etchings, monoprints, serigraphs, etc.

Regards,

John

[ 11-07-2003, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: John Ranes II, CPF, GCF ]

[Bob Carter]

I know our good friend, John, would respond because he is a real pro at developing this niche that he has exploited so well.

The driving point is that John had a plan, he had a vision and he had the ability. The fact that he was stationed in Germany and visits is a major plus that many may not have. While that shouldn't be an obstacle, in his case he turned this advantage into a HUGE benefit.

His numbers are staggerring for our trade and it didn't come from poor planning nor poor execution.

The point is a good idea is simply not enough-a thorough scheme that is well-thought out and well-crafted beats the inferior plan every time.

And guess what? That's exactly what the BB's have done also.

Just as assuredly as we can all learn from John, so can we learn from the BB's. These people have crafted a successful model (That's why they lines an hour long in Lubbock)and to simply disregard it as unworthy is as flawed as not taking John's class and learning from success.

Find someone that does something better than you and try and make it work for you and your plans. That doesn't mean go out and buy Nutcrackers, but it does mean look for the comparatives, the plans. Make it work for you and your passion.

We can learn from almost everyone, if we just open up to something different.

John is absolutely one of "us". We need to thank him for sharing. And we need to learn from him.

And, we need to learn from every other succesful operator out there

[Bob Shirk MCPF]

Does anyone out there have any good ideas for advertising framed art?

[Warren Tucker]

I'm a little late getting to this thread but one response stands out and that's the 16 x 20 ready made quote. Double matting, fitting, mounting, and glazing for $130. I don't know if that included fixing the frame, $25. We'd do the job for $40 and be happy to get the job. We do it all the time. You can charge anything you want for your service but for me, there's no way I could justify $130 for that job. We'd supply the frame for that kind of money. I don't know what my point is other than to suggest that's a good way to price a shop out of business. I honestly don't feel that there is any job we sell that our customers could buy for less anywhere else. If I found out that a HL, or anyone else FTM, was selling frame jobs for less than we do, I'd work out a way to lower the price. In fact that's been a constant from day one. We've always looked for ways to lower costs. Warren

[Rogatory]

Warren,
I've visited your web site and am impressed.
With all due respect 'I am not you'. I am a one-person shop, and don't have or want the buying power you do. I’m happy with that. I CAN justify my prices; in fact they may be a tad too low.

My customer came in to pick up her art today and was ecstatic! She will NEVER return to a BB for framing, and she will tell everyone she knows about her experiences. That’s how I’m going after the big boxes, one customer at a time! smile.gif

Thank You,
-David-

[Ron Eggers]

Hey, Warren, maybe you want to compare prices with Andrew J. Hohensee of Raceland, LA. He's been telling us for years that he practically gives the stuff away and anybody who charges more is not only a crook but a stupid one at that.

He's somewhere on The Grumble, though I'm not certain what his screen name is this week.

It's completely beyond me why anyone would want to brag to a bunch of framers about how LITTLE they charge for their services.

Save it for your customers.

[Warren Tucker]

Ron, I wasn't "bragging"; I wanted to bring up a serious issue and one that I think a bunch of picture framers would be interested in. I guess the question is which road do we take to be successful in this industry. We've decided on trying to provide a service that's both a good deal for us and for our customers.

We started out as a two man shop (mom and pop)but from the start, we concentrated on ways to lower prices and we've been pushing at it for 25 years. I happen to think that's one way to go. There may be other ways, but which way is going to weather the storm of big boys getting into the insustry the best? That's the question. As to how we price our services consider this: you have an electrician install a wall outlet. He charges you $130. You have a buddy who got the same job done for $60 by another electrician. Same job, same quality. How would you feel? Maybe you'd be happy to have done business with a guy who thinks highly of his services. Maybe not. I know which electricial I'd call in the future.

We provide an outstanding product with outstanding service for a good price. I think that's the way to stay in business. Just because someone charges a high price for a service doesn't mean the service is better for it.