100 piece quote

[Less]

A photographer comes in and wants a quote for 100 pieces.
There is a very serious possibility of landing the job.
Will have to be shipped oversees.
Packing and shipping not included.

Frame 1-3/4 flat matte black.
Float mount Giclee photos on Artcare foam
Regular glass and fit.
Optional acrylic price.

Sizes:
40- 36 x 48
35 - 24 x 30
25 - 20 x 24

I came up with a price, which I will share.

How much would you charge?

Keep in mind I work alone.

[Framerguy]

Originally posted by lessafinger:
How much would you charge?

Enough to make a healthy profit!!

(Remember, I work alone also.) tongue.gif

Really, Less, there are a multitude of matte black 1 3/4" wood frames out there to choose from, all prices and all qualities. Without knowing what quality the photographer wants (they usually want super ........ CHEAP), how could someone come up with a reasonable estimate.

When you say "float mount" on foamboard, what exactly do you mean by that? Float mounting to me is mounting above the surface of the substrate with a spacer or some such item to give the illusion of "floating" above that surface or using hidden hinges to accomplish the same illusion. If you are going to do that, you should have figured in some kind of spacer to keep the glass off the surface of the photo. (Another added cost.)

I'd probably estimate the job on a cost plus basis rather than a full retail basis as I would any commercial volume job. How much do you need to make a good profit on each piece? It can be much less than what you would make on a single at full retail. There is a point where your labor can be duplicated in sort of an assembly line process and the job moves along much faster than doing each one from start to finish individually.

Give the process some thought and maybe you will have an epiphany on the subject.

(Just stay off the UnSeal for a change!!) ;) You need your head clear for this job!

Framerguy

[ 10-22-2003, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: Framerguy ]

[Less]

Just stick it to AF foam with acid free tape - no spacers.

The frame I based my price on was Studio's 26201.

I wonder how long it would take me to knock these out?

[AWG]

LOTS of variables and unknowns, but I'll throw in 2 cents...

How long do you have to complete the job? Can you take on this job and continue your other work? Do you get all 100 pcs now, or is it one of those "I'll bring you lots of work...." things?? Payment up front or do you have to extend credit? I like these jobs, but unfortunately we don't get too many. Working on that problem.

Framerguy's right - cost-plus pricing is definitely the best way to price these. We get a 1 3/4" black for about $1 a foot. Figuring for waste, you're looking at cost per frame of
$8 - $15 per.
Stay with me....

Using LJ pricing, glass will run $2-10 per lite (I'd add $10-$30 for acrylic), and Artcare foam $4 a sheet. That's before any discounts you may get. Don't forget to add shipping costs if there are any.

Using round numbers I get:
COST: 24x30 $20
20x24 $15
36x48 $30

You might look at alternatives - a different AF board or generic glass. A savings of $1 or $2 may help you get the job - or put more money in your pocket.

Factor in how much YOU want and quote appropriately. Hope that helps - Good Luck.

[ 10-22-2003, 07:07 PM: Message edited by: AWG ]

[Framerguy]

Tony,

You DID notice that 40 of these puppies will need to be mounted on 40x60 foamcore??

That may knock the overall price up a notch or 2.

FGII

Edit: You could get 2 each out of 20 sheets of 48x96 foamcore instead of buying 40 sheets of 40x60. That would save some in costs. (Maybe)

[ 10-22-2003, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: Framerguy ]

[Ron Eggers]

My experience is that glass against a regular lab photo is risky, but glass right against an inkjet print is almost universally fatal (to the print) and in a relatively short time.

And didn't we decide that giclees are inkjet prints?

Are they sealed, coated, textured or otherwise <strike>immune</strike> resistant to glazing's kiss-of-death?

[wpfay]

Hi Less, I'll play devils advocate here. I've done a few production jobs and here are some of the questions I would ask:


How long will it take? Probably about twice as long as you think if you are not set up to do production.

Do you have the space to store all these until they are shipped? Have you worked out shipping arrangements? (outsource if at all possible)

Does your source of moulding have the 1440* feet necessary to do the job or are you going to have to wait for trans-ship from another warehouse? (*1200'+ 20% waste) Or, heaven forbid, the next shipment from overseas....

Have you figured in the extra time it takes to handle plex (I would think the client foolish to use glass for something being shipped overseas), and the extra time it takes to protect each finished piece after framing is complete?

Does the client fully understand the Less-than-archival nature of straight fitting a piece of artwork in a frame with no spacers, and will they indemnify you against damage to the art from this process?

If the pieces are indeed "floating" does this mean that the foam board will be visible from the front as a border? Why not go ahead and dry mount?

These kinds of jobs can be very financially rewarding, but the other side of the coin is that each mistake is multiplied by 100 so it is also very easy to work real hard for Less than nothing.

[katman]

I'll jump in. I've done a few of these jobs for other photographers. Get the schedule nailed down and money up-front to cover your materials. I did one fund raising exhibit involving 40 pieces. About half or the photos came in to me as agreed. The rest came in two days before the show opened.

Doesn't sound like you will be using any glass here and you can buy cases of precut acrylic. That will save you plenty of time and you should be able to negotiate special pricing with a vendor if you have one that can handle all your supplies. The vendor won't make much on a unit basis either, but the job might be worthwhile.

I haven't any experience buying joins from Studio. However, I would look for a price on all frames joined. I could get some pretty good pricing buying this number of same size, same moulding frames joined. Plus, I'd be able to use some of the packaging material for delivery to the customer.

We have a small shop and would either have to burn the midnight oil or put other customers on hold to get this done under a tight schedule. I'd burn some midnight oil and treat this as an assembly operation as much as possible. Basically, charging a fitting fee plus a bit for my loss of sleep. I would not make my custom frame customers experience a delay.

[smitten]

Without making any calls to negotiate prices…

I would go about $12,500.00 plus tax

This does NOT INCLUDE ANY pre-shipping or shipping labor or packaging.

[Less]

You are right Wally.
These are all questions I have learned to ask myself. I personally am not interested in production framing, but I have learned how to take a hard look at material plus time to make good money on volume jobs.

Inexpensive is the client’s operative word, because he may have to pick up more of the tab than his exhibition curators original said.

Done locally because he can control some level of quality, and I have been advising over the last few months on things to consider.

I had little expectation or desire for the job, but suggested that he at least let me quote on it. Careful for what you wish for.

He is involved in a huge project, which will travel the world. He has looked at buying ready-mades and doing it himself, to shipping the art overseas and having them framed there. He understands the conservation concerns, but he figures the worst thing that can happen is he prints another one. The foam will act as a border. Dry mounting is more time (money) and Less “archival”.

The last we talked I had recommended Plexi, but so far that is looking like a lot of work, especially at 36 x 48. I need to find a source for acrylic at those sizes. I really don’t want to cut them. In any case, acrylic will drive that price up and acrylic is difficult enough without having to cut it. Hey, maybe I need to buy that Fletcher 3000? I will be quoting the job, breaking out the cost of various options including just making the frames, (if I could be so lucky) and informing him what the job will weigh.

But, for the sake of simplicity, I posted just the full frame job. Jobs like these really open my eyes. It is helpful to me to get feedback from others and I know it is helpful to those who don’t have a concept of what it means to handle a job like this. It is a great real-life exercise that can help on the road to profitability.

How long will it take? Probably about twice as long as you think if you are not set up to do production.
Now that really is one of the big questions. I believe I know what I am capable of. The ideal would mean to shut down the shop for more than a week. The reality is pretty scary for one man.

Thankfully, The job can wait until January.

[JFeig]

And who is responsible for damage via shipping? (moisture and breakage)

How are these to be shipped? (air, boat) (wood crates, cardboard)

"Proper" export packaging can be VERY EXPENSIVE.

[AWG]

Less --
Regarding large plexi: our local plexi vendor cuts our stuff to size. We tell him what we need and they cut it from full sheets. We get the stuff precut and the leftovers. It's a great timesaver and lots easier than lugging around 48x96 sheets of plexi. You might call around and see if someone in your area can do that for you.

Tony

[Art On Canvas]

(40) 36x40 $5,800
(35) 24x30 3,990
(25) 20x24 2,775
I'd try $12,065
and go from there...
Good luck.

[Bob Carter]

Hey Less-Quit worrying about this deal and give it to me. I'll pay you $10 each for a referral and we'll take this baby to town.

Now, that's getting More for Less for doing Nothing

[Less]

I'm not worrying Bob, just talking out loud, and I thought a few Grumblers' would find the thread interesting.

I thought about referring the job. Give me some numbers.

[Bob Carter]

Heck Less, with all this micro-managing on pricing, I thought I'd make it easy on you.

Think about throwing $1000 in your pocket for doing Less and getting More. Everyone seems to be worried about losing money on this deal-I'm going to make it upfront for you with zero waste, zero effort, zero thought.

See, Less is More

[Elaine]

I'm with you Bob - I'd take it!

Careful with the overseas shipping - in my previous work life, there are NO guarantees on it getting there and getting through customs. Find someone that knows international shipping and its paperwork nightmare. There are several firms that actually pack artwork and arrange shipping, but their cost might take a huge chunk out the picture :D

elaine