glass

[Rosalyn]

Rookie question -- I'm glad you are all nice patient people.

When I called a large supplier, can't remember who - Decor I think, and talked about ordering glass they nearly said "No way" after finding out where it was to be delivered.

I own a small shop in a small town (less than 3,000 - that's three zeros) from the big cities.

In order to get anything large or heavy it would 'trucked' to some where, they didn't know where "where ever you get your deliveries" they said, and I would have to go get it . . . It wouldn't come standard UPS.

So, to the point of all this drivle. . . I'm using standard single pane glass cut at the local hardware/lumber yard. Is this acceptable or am I to be excamunicated from the land of framing?

No, they don't carry anything else at the local yard. They do have a non-glare that they want an arm and a leg for.

[Marc Lizer]

Exactlty what city?

If that's too private, than what general area?

How much business do you do? (approx)

What are you invnetory needs/desires?

How do other framshops get glass in your area?

[Sanabria]

The glass you typically get from a lumberyard or hardware store is powder-packed. The quality is architectural. It is not "selected" for the particular use of framing. It therefore,is common to find rubs, scratches, and/or inclusions in the glass.
We are capable of shipping our own brand of premium quality picture framing glass via LTL carrier.
Give us a call or, email us. We would be happy to discuss your needs.
800 329-9330
sales@fmiglassandmirror.com

Please also visit our website:
www.fmiglassandmirror.com (http://www.fmiglassandmirror.com)

[katman]

I'm told regular window glass is not made to the same specs as framing glass. Haven't investigated this. I use mostly True Vue and have been shifting to all conservaton or higher grades. Still use their regular glass and at its price I wouldn't bother checking out my local hardware store.

Fortunately, I get direct delivery from Larson and other suppliers. Have you checked with a local glass company to see if you can buy from them? I have one source for mirrors that does a lot of commercial plate glass work that also handles framing glass.

[JFeig]

I cannot beleve that there are no "regional" distributors in Kansas or neighboring states.

As for an alternative, if you are using SSB (that is what the hardware store is selling), look in the Commercial Yellow Pages either in hard cover or over the internet for a glass distributor. The hardware company has to get his glass delivered from someone. You might have to consider a larger quanity to justify the delivery; but, it might be worth it since you are currently buythe glass by the lite.

[JFeig]

I forgot to add..........
SSB glass is what is made by the glass mills. "SS" stands for single strength. "B" is the grade, basic inspection for defects. "Framing glass" is the same stuff, although it is inspected to a greater degree.

According to a gentleman from Guardian Glass ( the manufacturer of the base product for True-Vue, Crescent etc) there is a slight difference in the thickness of what is being used by the different converters / processors. 2mm, 2.2mm, 2.3mm are some of the different thicknesses.

Now is the time for Guardian to join in this discussion.

[jframe]

You could call True Vue and Guardian and ask for the name of the nearest distributor.

[John Richards]

Call New West 2718 Holmes, Kansas City Mo 64109 at 800-445-2501. I believe they cover the entire state of Kansas and do regular delivery. I'm pretty sure they carry TruVue and possible Crescent. Full line distributor. Chris Thompson is in charge of sales. Tell him John Richards suggested you call.

[Framerguy]

Rosalyn,

When Markg1's dad was still alive (another Grumbler friend of mine), we had to drive about 45 miles to one of the suburbs of St. Louis to pick up our glass. The delivery truck would only go that far East and they would dump our glass at one place or another, usually a relation of the family and we would have to take his van to pick up our order. (That was BEFORE our generous once a month LJ truck delivery started!).

If you are out in the boonies as far as we were, you may have to settle for either that or lumberyard glass, period. Pallette costs for glass would be much higher than what you would want to pay in a town of only 3K.

Framerguy

[Rosalyn]

I appreciate all your input!! Wow!!!

MARC - I am in the EXTREME southwest corner on the border. As an example of how rural we are I talked to Cresent once and they said they'd send a rep. That was two years ago. I wonder if he's lost and wondering in the wilderness. Or maybe just wondering around in our crocked streets!

I've been in business 2 1/2 years. I do about 10 frames a month - mostly feast or famine. I order all my frames chopped because I could never use a 100' stick of anything within my life time. I am also a photographer so it balances out nicely.

There is one other framer in town and I'm not even sure she's still in business. She used space in the carpet store she worked for and now she doesn't work there any more but her display is still there . . .

I would like to cut my own glass since it's frustrating to get the dirty stuff home from the hardware store, clean it and find a scratch in the middle or worse - one little tiny speck like a cut that some times you can't see until the package is together.

Currently I have a glass cutter for my Logan mat cutter and have been using the scraps the store sends home with me after cutting what I need.

There are two glass suppliers "locally" (a two hour drive round trip). They do not supply framing glass. I guess I'm not willing to drive much further to haul glass I can't unload myself. I wanted UPS or such to deliver it . . . smile.gif

John Richards -- I will do some calling. Up to now I didn't know where.

JFeig -- So, do you think the glass supplier in the other town (remember the two hour trip) would order my framing glass from TruVu or something if I would come get it?

Finally, the standard glass I'm using is not harming the 'art' - correct? I know it's not UV but no off-gassing or anything ...?

[jframe]

A case of glass is somewhat heavy, but nothing that isn't manageable. I'm sure your supplier would load it for you and that you would get the hang of dragging it out of your car and onto a cart.

You could by sizes that you use most often, or you could be larger sizes to cut down so that you wouldn't be limited to the size you can frame.

[ 10-09-2003, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: jframe ]

[Jim Miller]

Considering your remote location, would it be practical for you to drive to "the big city" once or twice a month to pick up the big/heavy items you need?

If not, then pay the price for ground transport of the items you need, and make sure your prices cover that cost.

If you're buying ordinary window glass for retial, you might break (pardon the pun) even by buying the better framing glass from a wholesale supplier.

[JFeig]

Looking at the number of frames you do a month, I would concure with Jim. Make a day of it and pick up the heavy stuff along with all of the other things that are not available in your town for the entire family.

I had relatives who lived in a small town up north and would come into town (Detroit) 2-3 times a year to do their shopping.

[MerpsMom]

Rosalyn, I could look up my map but am too lazy. How about Wichita? Isn't that where Frameworks is? Maybe they'd help. Or as John said, NW does a great job on lots of things, so if they can't go all the way, perhaps a drop ship to a town close to you would work.

[Rosalyn]

Meprs - don't bother with the map. Wichita is 5 hours one way.

[Rosalyn]

I'm certainly getting lots of useful info. As soon as I have time to digest it all again I hope to find some solutions.

I'm glad to know the plain ol' glass I'm using is okay.

One other question. What's the difference between the concervation and museum glass some keep referring to?

[Pat Murphey]

Rosalyn,

Conservation glass is plain (or non-glare) glass with a UV protective coating. Museum glass is Tru-vue's brand name for glass with an anti-reflective coating plus the UV protective coating. Anti-reflective coatings absorb reflections without the fogginess of non-glare etched surfaces. Tru-vue conservation glass typically sells to framers for $60 - $70 for a 50 square foot box. Museum glass sells for $350 - $400 for a 25 square foot box - definitely a premium product.

Pat :D

[framah]

Ah... Kansas!!!
Reminds me of their license plates. Their

logo is: "Kansas, Gateway to Nebraska". :eek: :eek: :eek: tongue.gif

[Rosalyn]

Pat - thanks for clearing up the difference for me.

Hey, Frama, what's a Nebraska? ;)

[Marc Lizer]

To clarify:

Kansas: The Wheat State.

We all know the Fruit and Nuts and Flakes State.

And, of course, then we now certainly know the State where the Sap Runs Naked Through the Trees.

[ 10-10-2003, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: Marc Lizer ]

[framah]

AYUH!!
But ya can't get heah from theah!! tongue.gif tongue.gif

[Frank Larson]

Originally posted by Rosalyn:
I own a small shop in a small town (less than 3,000 - that's three zeros. Huh! You call that a small town? I had my first shop in a town of 450. The entire county had less than 2000 people. You're living in a metropolis and didn't know it.

I had the same problem with glass. First I bought it from the local lumberyard then I needed enough that I ordered about 10 boxes from Larson which they had trucked to me. Cost me a fortune but it was still cheaper than the lumberyard. Then I started calling around and found a glass wholesaler that just happened to send a truck through my town about once a month and would be glad to drop off a box or two or ten for a $5 delivery charge.

The moral of the story is: Get on the phone and call a glass supplier. Your lumberyard and glaziers in the area are getting their glass somewhere and whoever is supplying them would probably deliver to you at the same time for a small fee. The lumberyard and I got glass on the same day every month....I wonder why....

Looking at my Rand McNally I can see where you might think you're in the middle of nowhere and nobody could possibly be delivering in your area but given the lack of highways in SW Kansas you're probably on the way to somewhere that they've got to go to sooner or later.

[ 10-11-2003, 02:10 AM: Message edited by: Frank Larson ]

[Reynard]

When I first started out framing in 86 there were no specialist suppliers to the trade in Scotland.The glass had to be bought locally from your friendly glazier.We took 6` x4` sheets of 2mm float and we had to get it ourselves as the glazier took a ridiculous amount for delivering.

My boss had a trailer made up and we loaded on to that and gingerly drove fifteen miles over the potholed roads with it.There was nearly always a broken sheet or two.But it can be done if you are really stuck and it looks like you are really

stuck..That way you can also buy whatever you
require rather than having to take a pallette and be stuck with it for ages.

I would try to see if any glaziers locally will stock what you need.Generally over here they are fine about it.They are certainly that bit more pricey but if you talk to them nicely and maybe flash a bit of thigh at them they will give you a better price.

and call that small?HA!

I worked for sixteen years in a hamlet with fourteen houses in it!

[ 10-12-2003, 06:04 AM: Message edited by: Reynard ]

[Ron Eggers]

maybe flash a bit of thigh at them they will give you a better price.
And that worked for YOU, Reynard???

[Ron Eggers]

I have visions of wrestling with 4'x6' lites of 2mm glass and thinking I'd wanna stock up on butterfly closures.

40"x60" is my limit and I'd normally go with acrylic for anything close to that.

I am reminded once again how spoiled we are to get free local delivery on nearly everything we need (except Coroplast :( )

[Barb Pelton]

Rosalyn-
You aren't the only one to have faced this problem. I used to drive 3 hrs one-way to Memphis to pick up glass (and matboard since I was there anyway). It wasn't altogether bad in the beginning, as I was probably only doing about 10 frames a month also. Once in awhile, I'd get in a pinch and have to find someone closer to get a lite from.

Then, I started splitting orders with another framer 1 hr. away who could get it delivered once a month IF there were at least 5 boxes. So, yeah!, a 6 hr. drive turned into a 2-hr. drive! Then she went out of business, but I found another business that allowed me to accept a delivery to my van in their parking lot...

Now I have enough to have a courier to haul supplies to me once a week for a very attractive price.

It's worth the effort to go pick it up once in awhile (stock up!) and although it's heavy, it isn't unmanageable, as Jo already pointed out. Just pull it out of the vehicle and load it onto a hand truck.) Once you upgrade to a better glass, you'll never regret it. No more 30 minute glass-cleaning sessions!

Good luck!

[Rosalyn]

Thank you Barb you presented some other ideas I hadn't thought of. I appreciate everyone's input and am digesting it all again and again.