POS & Accounting practices

[RozR]

I have been using Lifesaver Software since my opening - and it has truly been a Lifesaver!!
If I didn't have a POS - I would not have the expertise to track my work to be done as effectively as it does.

I also value it's ability to track the Accounting needs of the business.

How much of the accounting do you duplicate with a separate accounting system, like Quickbooks??

I input on a daily basis, my accounts payable, cash/payment received, expenses, etc.

Lifesaver tracks Orders Written on a daily basis regardless of payment/deposit received. Do you input this kind of info into your accounting system as well?

I like to see "Sales to date" figures - not just "cash in" to date..... is it worth duplicating??

What do you do??

Thanks, Roz

[Cliff Wilson]

Well, ... I use a POS and Quickbooks. I use my POS for customer tracking, job tracking and payment tracking. Quickbooks is my difinitive General Journal and account management (payroll, checking, savings, cash, expenses, payables, ...). I did this for a couple of reasons. First, I'd rather have a software package designed specifically for accounting for my books and a package specifically for POS and framing for order tracking etc. Also, my accountant uses Quickbooks, so when necessary, I backup my QB files to a CD and give it to her. Easy. Saves her time and me money.

At the end of every day I print reports from my POS and make "deposits or journal entries" to the following accounts: (Not all may be used on any given day!)

Sales
Non-taxable Sales
Sales Tax Payable
Deposits on Orders
Gift Certificates
Store Credit
Contributions

Deposits are made for each of the "depositing entities" so they will EXACTLY match in my check register when the checking account statment comes in and I need to reconcile. So, I make a "Deposit" for each of the categories: (Again, not necessarily all on any given day.)

Cash and Checks go into "Cash"
VISA/MC Credit is entered in "Checking"
VISA/MC Debit is entered in "Checking"
AmEx is entered into "Checking"

Deposits on Orders increases with "Deposits" and "Decreases" (is moved to Sales) when the order is picked up.

This way My Deposits (liabilities) are not credited to Sales until the product is delivered, so I do not incur a tax liability until then.

I just realized I am probably giving you way more detail than you want. I don't see it as "duplicating." I find QB well designed for accountign. Hope I helped.

Cliff

Cliff

[ 09-10-2003, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: Cliff Wilson ]

[B. Newman]

So Cliff, in that regard, you aren't using the sales receipt or customer list function of QB at all are you?

I use QB to track all my customer activity in each given area of the business. When an order is picked up, it is entered into Sales Receipts (and automatically into Customer list) then I add the customer into Access for database tracking and mail merge for newsletters, etc.

Probably overkill.

Betty

[Cliff Wilson]

You are correct Betty.

I find the POS does a very credible job of customer tracking and label printing, customer list generation, etc. so I "move" money only to QB. Lists can be exported easily if I need them for some other purpose. (ie, to give to a mailing house.)

I find the POS is a great customer tracking system. Plus, with little (or no) effort, I can get lists subsetted by zip, $$ spent, or anything I fill in the customer record. And, it will print labels witht hte subset.

So, I spend 10 minutes a day recording the days transactions as "totals" and I get an up-to-date "official" accounting system and (in the POS) a full customer database with mailing list cabability. If I want average sales or percent of conservation glass, or which moulding is selling, I use my POS. For profit and cash flow I use QB.

Betty, are you tracking all the customer data in your POS as well? If in two places, why?

Cliff

[B. Newman]

Originally posted by Cliff Wilson:
Betty, are you tracking all the customer data in your POS as well? If in two places, why?

Ain't got one yet redface.gif I'm embarrassed to say.

Betty

[Cliff Wilson]

Ahhh, I see. For general retail and sales/customer tracking QB appeared to me to be reasonable, but for job tracking and industry specific stuff it seems inadequate.

I wouldn't have undertaken this without a POS.

Cliff

[JFeig]

I agree with Cliff in using QB as a cash basis entry for tax purposes and using the POS system for customer tracking. I do not see doing any more bookkeeping than is necessary.

I find it interesting by come of the questions of others as to the data that they collect. Ex: sales of metal frames, sales of glass, fitting sales. I just look at total framing sales. When I look at average sales I look at average sales of all transactions (cash and carry, art, gilding, and custom framing). If I want I can look at purchasing by sub catagory. I rarely do though because I have a feel for what is being ordered and what my markups are. I definitely subscribe to the KISS method as a former Auditor for 12 years prior to becoming a framer.

[Mike Labbe @ GTP]

We use the POS to handle the details of each transaction, and use Quickbooks to handle daily deposit totals (itemized by type, so they match the bank statement), and to track checks. We do this manually each day, and keep a paper trail that shows what was taken out of the drawer, batched deposit contents, including check #s etc. When the statements come in, each transaction is reconciled against Quickbooks and the paper log.

I've seen the POS make mathmatical errors(database corruption), and I've seen Quickbooks make errors as well(it sometimes puts transactions in the wrong columns, when it feels like it).

It's probably a lot of extra work, but doing it like this sends up a red flag immediately when there's a math or typing error. It leaves enough "evidence" so we can figure out what went wrong. It only takes a few mins per day to enter the daily #s in QB, and it gives us an immediate "snapshot" of what funds are available.

We're still in "learning mode"(18mos), and there may be a more efficient way, but it works for now. When we get bigger and busier, it may have to be revised. What do most folks do?

Mike

[wpfay]

POS and QB, but the good news is that the POS's next upgrade will be full integration with QB, oh happy day! (No, I'm not holding my breath).

[Cliff Wilson]

Wally, What does "full integration with QB" mean? The POS system I have has a import/export feature with QB. (One of the reasons I selected it.) BUT, because of some quirks (inadequecies?) in QB the interface does not and can not handle "Deposits on Orders" well. It also insists on placing any cash I have recieved in an "Undeposited Funds" account. Then, I have to go in and move (deposit) them somewhere. I just want it to go in "Cash." (Part of this is because I want to combine my Cash Drawer and Petty Cash and Undeposited Cash into the same account. Then, when I make a cash/check deposit to checking it is one transaction which again makes it easy for me to reconcile at the end of the motnh. So, if I use the interface, it's much more work than printing end-of-the-day reports and typing in the numbers. I hope the interface you are waiting for fits better with your system.

Mike, it sounds like we are doing the same thing, except I only pull the paper trail out if QB and the checking statement aren't exactly in sync.

Cliff

[ 09-10-2003, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: Cliff Wilson ]

[rosetl]

I do similar to Cliff & others using both POS and quickbooks--but we just enter in the receipts (income) weekly.

We make a weekly entry in the "enter sales receipts" area. It includes the totals of various categories we need to track for income (total retail sales, wholesale sales & misc.non-taxable things like the occasional rebate check!) as well as lists cash/check deposit totals, MC/Visa deposits & AMEX deposits.

We have paper support for it and it is verified before entry.

ALL outgo--computer checks, bank rec., hand checks & accounts payable are on QB.

Any further income breakdown can be found in the POS as needed., including invoicing & accounts receivable.

There are abundant reports available in the POS...much like there are abundant reports available in QB!

[RozR]

Sounds as though we are all doing similar procedures... and Cliff, I love the detail!!! Not too much info at all.

I wonder how you all handle gift certificates with the POS? Has me baffled!!!

Thanks,

Roz

[Cliff Wilson]

I am assuming you mean when they bring it in to redeem it. I added a "Credit Card" called "Gift Cert." So, in hte POS reports it shows as a separate payment type, like cash/checks/MC/AmEx.

Then, when I enter in QB, I just make sure it gets credited to the correct account. The "Gift Certificate" liability account if it was purchased, or the "Contributions" expense account if it was one I gave to a charity for some reason.

Of course, at time of Purchase, the Cash/check/CC deposit has a corresponding entry in the "Gift Certificate" liability account, so it is there to be reversed when the certificate comes back.

Hope that helped.

Cliff

[Mike Labbe @ GTP]

We apply the redeemed item as "Credit", which just discounts the amount off the total. (without falsely increasing the daily sale totals)

When you make the actual gift certificate sale, it goes in as cash/check/credit card and counts it as part of total sales for that day.

If you put it in as a credit card, it's likely to appear twice in your accounting, and throw off the totals. (once the day it was purchased, and once the day it was redeemed)

Then again if you're using QB for the real numbers and take this into account, I guess it doesn't matter smile.gif

Mike

[Cliff Wilson]

Mike says; We apply the redeemed item as "Credit", which just discounts the amount off the total. (without falsely increasing the daily sale totals)
Does that me you "count" the gift certificate purchase as sales at time of purchase?

I don't. It is a liability I have accrued.

The "cash" goes in the cash/checking account and the amount is entered into a "liability" account. I am holding "their money" until the certificate is returned. When the certificate is redeemed it "becomes" a sale. That's when I move the money from the liability account to the "Sales" account. When they redeem it is exactly when it gets credited to sales and should show up on the daily sales totals. I believe this is correct not "false." (Unless of course it is used as a deposit when redeemed, then it moves to the "Deposits on Orders" liability account until the finished piece is picked up at which time it increases "Sales.")

Plus, if it was a gift certificate given to a charity, it becomes a "charitable contribution" and a deductible "expense" when redeemed. If you make it a "discount off the total" how do you record the deduction you have earned? If you record it as "Sales" then record an "expense" of equivalent amount as a donation to the charity, you get a truer picture of what happened. (ie. for a $100 job and a $25 "Gift Certificate" auctioned at a charity, you "donated" $25 to the charity which the customer acquired and used to pay you for your $100 merchandise.)

Did I misunderstand?

Of course, the Cash becomes part of your cash flow and available funds as soon as you recieve it. You just have a paper "liability."

Cliff

P.S. did you know when you push "Edit Post" you can't exit without editing???? Maybe I missed something???

[ 09-11-2003, 03:49 PM: Message edited by: Cliff Wilson ]

[Cliff Wilson]

Mike,

I just noticed something else in your post. I don't "put it in as a credit card." It is just that the "credit card" mechanism in my POS is the tool I used to enable the POS to record the Gift Certificate as a payment type.

(As I reread the previous sentence I realized that I know what it is trying to say because I know what I want to say before I say it, but it isn't clear to me if someone that doesn't know what I am trying to say will get what I am saying???? :confused: Well, I hope it's clearer than I think it is!)

Cliff

[Jim Miller]

Originally posted by wpfay:
...the good news is that the POS's next upgrade will be full integration with QB...Which POS do you have, Wally? Full integration with QuickBooks -- or even partial integration -- might make a change worthwhile. All that duplication of info makes my eyebrows hurt.

[Cliff Wilson]

Jim, I am using SpecialtySoft which has an interface to QB. It is as "complete" as QB enables. It doesn't fit well with my account setup, but might yours. If I could just identify certain dollar figures to be entered into MY ACCOUNTs even by number it could get very interesting. The problem is that I want things like the "Sub-total" for the "MC/Visa Credit" to be entered as a separate "deposit" from the "Sub-total" of the "MC/Visa Debit" activity. And, I want it entered into Checking with corresponding entries in either Deposits on Orders or Sales, etc.

The interface wants to enter a Sales Reciept under a dummy customer. Probably works well for a lot of people. You might want to ask them some questions.

Cliff

[rosetl]

"I like to see "Sales to date" figures - not just "cash in" to date..... is it worth duplicating??"

I think this gets into accounting stuff and accounting terminology. Some of the POS only track cash flow -- not "sales", which I believe are technically only the dollar amount of product delivered (er, something close to that.)

This really comes into play when the business does a lot of billing---like having to report it as income & pay the sales tax though you don't get paid for 90-120 days. It is also mixed in with those awful terms -- accrual or cash basis accounting. In the past inventory type businesses always had to be accrual--but there have been fairly recent changes. SO, IF YOU ARE NEW you may be able to "elect" which accounting method to use.

Now, back to the question -- Spec. Soft & Artisan Frameshop, for two, track "cash in" as well as "sales".

From what I can tell accounting doesn't give a hoot on the dollar amount of orders written for any time period--and my POS doesn't either. Do any of them? So, we manually log the dollar amount of each order (what I frequently & perhaps loosely call sales) at the time we close it--add them daily & weekly.

My POS has gift certificate tracking. I also set up "gift certificate" as a type of payment to smoothly handle it through the cash register portion of the program.