late employees

[Joe Dellert CPF]

How do you handle tardiness? I've a real problem that gets better than worse again. Suggestions?

[HannaFate]

That's always a difficult one. You can make threats, but it doesn't work.

Someone who is always late will clean up their act for a while if you put them "on probation", but, as soon as you relax, they go back to being late.

You just have to decide how much of a problem it is.
If that is the only flaw in the employee, you may decide to put up with it (but still dock them for the time)

[Joe Dellert CPF]

Hanna
That is what I am thinking. Right now they just stay ten after to make up the time. I have been thinking that from now on it can't be made up but boy is that going to be a pain on payroll days. Iguess it is already a pain.

[B. Newman]

In my opinion, a lot depends on you. I had this same situation with my employee when she first started. I had intended for her to start at 8:30 and work until 4:00, giving her 7 full hours and 30 min. for lunch. Well, it kept being 8:45, 8:45, 8:50, etc, etc... And as a perfectionist, it drove me nuts!

But her work was excellent. She was (is) very pleasant to work with. She can take over in a heartbeat if I'm not here. (And has many times.)

So, I changed her hours to 9:00-4:00 and just didn't tell her! :D She eventually settled into a 9-4 existance and is rarely late. Occasionally she dips over to 9:05 or 9:10, but she always stays over to make it even hours, which is what I need for figuring my payroll.

The reason I said that "it depends on you" is, how rigid do you need to be, time-wise? If I had to open the doors for customers at a certain time, I'd be a little more definate on timing.* But we don't, and I count "flexability" as one of the "perks" that I can give in lieu of more dollars.

But if tardiness is just one of a long list of greviences, then I'd definately address it.

Just my "trial and error experience as an employer" opinion.

Betty

(PS *I personally hate being controlled by a time clock. As a senior in high school, I absolutely HATED the bell. It told me when to eat, when to go to the bathroom, when I could "do art," when I could write, and when I could go home.

My first (and basically, only) job started out with us just writing our time on a calendar. When my boss got the "time clock" that I had to "punch", well, I certainly felt like "punching" it. So as I hate to be controled by time, I hate to make time a controlling factor. But again, all, or most, would depend on the quality of the employee first.)

[ 09-02-2003, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: B. Newman ]

[Marc Bluestone]

Three quick thoughts...

1) If an employee arrives late, consider not allowing them to clock-in until the next quarter or half hour. They won't like that unproductive (unpaid) time and will likely try to arrive earlier.

2) Don't EVER let them make up their hours. If they are late and you let them make up hours, then they have paid no price for their poor performance.

3) If termination for repeated offenses doesn't fit with your operating style, how about a day off without pay after three unexcused lateness's?

Some people follow rules because it's the right thing to do. Unfortunately, most people follow rules only because it is in their best interest to do so.

However you do it, make sure you levy a price on poor performance.

[Gerard]

Are there no "Percs" for full time work? If an employee doesnt work a 40 hour week perhaps they would rather be part time. This would save the owner a bunch also. It might be a hassle to place an employee on part time for a month but it might get their act together. They should be coming in early and leaving late anyway with our current economy.

[Bob Carter]

Nobody has a better fix on employees than Marc. He manages more people than any of us and his experience base is tremendous.

I might add that tardiness is a sympton of a larger root cause. Employees that are happy want to come to work and show up on time.

The worst tardiness offenders always have some excuse. If the root cause can not be cured, you really may not have an option besides the obvious one.

I agree with Marc and there should be some "price" to pay by the offender

[Framing Goddess]

Joe, an employee who is chronically late, even after you have had talks with him/her is an employee who does not respect you or your business. Do you really want that?

edie the illbeemailingyoulaterwithmorecommentsonthis goddess

[ 09-02-2003, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: Framing Goddess ]

[McPhoto]

Another point is to make sure that you document any tardiness - ie: WRITE IT DOWN in the employee's file. If, for any reason you have to fire this employee, you will have documentation that you may need to be confirmed by the employment office if there is a protest to your actions.
The PMA has an excellent "policy manual" that you can adapt to your needs.

[JudyN]

Several years ago I had an employee that kept
coming in later and later. He could never get here before 11:00 Am. ( We open at 9:30AM ). So I said ok I am changing your work hours. You will start at 12.00 Noon tomorrow. He says OK. Next day He comes in at 1 PM . I said how about starting at 3PM tomorrow? He got the picture as he figured out he was running out of time in the day to work. He never came back!

[dns ynko]

i was late to work today....i enjoyed the weekend and did not reset my clock. i had no idea i was late until i went to clock in for the day. i work at two separate frame shops, one starts at 10, the other 9. i had my clock set still to the 10, forgot to change it. a big brain fart...i do not do things like this.

my boss thought it was a bit funny and was good about it. i hate that feeling, like i disrespected someone. i don't even try to make anything up, i just say it was my fault and sorry.

luckily he was not upset, but i agree. employees who enjoy work want to be there, that is correct. i enjoy both jobs, each employer offers something different that keeps me interested. so i want to be there. it is like a class in school, the good ones you don't want to miss. the ones that are not as thrilling you want to skip.
ds

[PurplePerson]

I highly resent that time clock, but I know my boss has to know how many hours we worked to pay us.

I am always on time and always leave on time or change my hours however I am asked, if I can. I come two hours before anyone arrives and if I forget to clock in, I can write it in. I could easily abuse the situation. I am on time because I love the work and because Marie is not oppressive and we care about her, because she cares about us. We can work without stress.

If a stick was held over my head all of the time, I would not be so faithful, at least in my heart and my off hours gossip. I would dread every minute of every day. I could never work for that kind of person again, no matter how much I loved what I am doing. I dispised my former framing employer because they did not care about me and only cared about control and they were horrible to me just to show their power. I was their most faithful worker, and they didn't even know it.

Our atmosphere, now, is caring and personal. It encourages following what is expected and therefore that is what the boss gets in return. Sometimes she or we come in, in a bad mood, but the faithfulness is still there, because we know we are appreciated and feel needed. I would be faithful to her, no matter what.

Obviously I feel very stronly about this. That day I had only 9 minutes to get dressed because I was on the Grumble too long, I made it to work on time, with all of my clothes on right side in. I could have been late and my boss would never have known.

If an employee has to be beaten into coming on time, they do not belong there.

[B. Newman]

I understand that in a more "corporate" environment such as Bob's or Marc's operations, time is a much more structured component than is one such as mine.

The reason that I hated the time clock so much was that it removed my freedom to give. I was supposed to start work at 9:30. I was never there later than 9:10 or so. That was my choice. I got things ready and did "prelim" work before I opened the doors at 9:30. Once the timeclock arrived, I was supposed to clock in once I walked in the door. I never did ;) . I usually hit the clock about 9:25. Ahhhh, what a rebel I was tongue.gif !

My grandfather always gave 14 ears of corn for a dozen purchased, and a couple of extra tomatoes for every pound. It's the way I was raised.

Betty

[CharlesL]

The Fone Co viewed tardiness as the same as absence.
Our running joke was that if we 'were 15 minutes late, we left 15 minutes early', as opposed to making up the time. We NEVER wanted to be late twice in the same day!

I agree on being on time, but the 'root cause' may not always lie with the employee. It could be that the boss makes their life intolerable enough that promptness isn't a concern.

[ 09-02-2003, 11:11 PM: Message edited by: CharlesL ]

[Meghan MacMillan]

In what ways does it affect your business? Is your store being opened late? Are there yellow post-its on your door because UPS came early? Do other employees see the tardy one as getting away with something?

If your tardy person isn't hurting anyone but himself, let him (her?) hurt himself a time or two (financially, that is. Dock for missed time.) Perhaps he will come up with a sollution on his own.

Whatever you do has to be something that could be repeated with all of your other employees so that it is viewed as a new policy and not what you did for that one framer's pet.

[ 09-03-2003, 05:32 PM: Message edited by: Meghan MacMillan ]

[Sherry Gray]

How many employees do you have? I ask this because if there are few, it might be to your benefit to allow flexibility. Some folks are just not morning people and do their best work later in the day. I would not, however, put myself out to allow them to make up the time; and would tell them to clock in on the quarter hour. I'm punctual, but one great benefit from having a laid-back son is that he has taught me not to be so anal about a clock.

[PurplePerson]

We have two morning people and two evening people. It works out wonderful that two people are functional all of the time. smile.gif

[Joe Dellert CPF]

The situation is this I have been the only one to feel the pain. Yes I talk to them but I never chew anyone out for waltzing in ten minutes late. So let me ask some proceedural questions. When you dock pay is it is it to the nearest ten or fifteen minutes? When clocking in do they do it on the way to hang up their coat or do you require them to be ready to work at the time they hit the clock.
Yes I am the problem and I am trying to fix it in a fair understandable way. I have had much worse attendance and behavior on the job. Did you ever find your frame joiner knapping during work? He didn't last long after that. Yes I am scared of the clock, when I was the employee at this shop only the Boss had a key so we would stack up at the door waiting to go to work, I always got there early and had coffee so I went to work when he opened the door. This probably why I now own the company among other reasons. Now all the staff have keys and half show up late go figure.

[AndyPan, CPF]

Being a guy who likes to be on time myself, I find tardiness in other people somewhat intolerable. But I think that in order for an employee to understand that tardniess is not acceptable, a policy needs to be set up and enforced. At the shop I used to manage before we open GTP, I had two employees that were consistently late. However, my hands were tied by MY boss, the ownder of the store, who was very lax about any type of policy structure. I could talk to these guys until I was blue in the face, but it did little to no good. When the owner would have staff meetings, this issue was often brought up, and a half-hearted (on his part) attempt at making a demand for puncuality would be made. Often times these guys would be on time for a day or two, then very quickly would revert back to arriving late. When you are a manager in name only, there is little you can do to correct the problem. The policy and example muist come from the top, the boss.

IMO, a written policy should be set up that all employees, new and current, should be required to read and sign. Infractions of policy should be written up and placed on file. Multiple infractions could be cause for consequences, such as a day off with no pay, and in extreme circumstances, termination of employment. I'm not advocating a goose-stepping, clicking of heels here, but anyone that is of age to have a job should know what is expected of them in the workplace, and what won't be tolerated. You are an employer, not a babysitter, and not a place to show up when they feel they need spending money.

Hmmm, I must still be reeling from my previous bad experiences. Bitter, party of one?

[CharlesL]

There is a difference in a person who is 10~15 minutes late EVERY DAY, and a person who is rarely late.
There could be a wreck, they could have a flat tire, ad infinitum.
If it is a chronic, daily thing, then I, the former-union-shop-member, would go after them with a vengance.
If it is a once-in-a-blue-moon situation, and the employer docks their pay, or does not allow them the option to make the time up, then we are entering the world of the Heel-clicking-Nazi boss.
If I had an employee that was late maybe twice a year, and their excuse WAS traffic, or a dead battery, or a flat tire, AND they were a good employee, I'd tell them to just forget it. Stuff happens.
Just my opinion.

[George Hunter]

What would you suggest if the late person is your wife?

I have already ruled out murder and divorce but any other ideas would be welcome.

[Pat Murphey]

I would suggest not letting her read the Grumble.

She may not rule out murder or divorce. :D

Sorry for the frankenthread, :D
Pat

[RozR]

Tardiness.

The story of my life. My employee is ALWAYS late at least 1 or 2 times a week - and that employee is me!! Being the owner and not liking "clocks" I find that I run hot and cold depending on the demand of work to be done, etc.

I have set retail hours and I rarely have a line up at the door when I arrive - so if I am late by 5-10 minutes (which is all it is) - it has never adversely affected business. I am rarely (RARELY) out of here at posted closing time and am finding more and more customers coming in "after hours"... now that I am established (1 1/2 years!).

But back to the tardiness.... sorry, but I worked for a man who was ANAL about time and didn't look at the time put in after hours, or lunch hours never taken.... to get work done (this was not an hourly wage position)... so I want to be more relaxed BUT if I hire someone (which I hope to do in the not too distant future) I want someone who will be the "early bird" to get here on time, in the morning to open and be ready to roll for the posted hours... and that will be part of the criteria in hiring that person - a morning person!! That employee's hours would be 1/4 hour earlier than opening time to allow for the opening process which takes about 5 minutes..

I also worked for a company (not retail) that tracked late time against the extra time put in so that if you had a problem, a doctor appt, or other situation that kept you from your normal hours - it was made up - sometimes in your favor with added time off, or against with extra time to put in - no actual time clock - but accounting for the time.

Flex time is good for some positions and not for others. If the position affects other's it is essential to follow schedules and have continuity; if it doesn't - flex time is perfect.

Roz

[TheAcrylicPrincess]

Originally posted by Framing Goddess:
Joe, an employee who is chronically late, even after you have had talks with him/her is an employee who does not respect you or your business. Do you really want that?

edie the illbeemailingyoulaterwithmorecommentsonthis goddess Hm, I don't know that I agree with that. I hate to admit it but I am chronically late, fortunately I work for my parents and I mostly just get yelled at. I'm not late because I don't respect them or the business (although I do see how it can be taken as such) I'm late because I'm a perfectionist with slight OCD, you might want to ask your employee what it is that's making them late and see if you can tolerate it. If worse comes to worst I like the idea of changing their hours but not telling them.

[framah]

For George... How about a good spanking?? tongue.gif ;)

[framah]

Another suggestion about lateness. Remind them that raises are based upon performance and tardines among other things . If they know you won't give them a raise because they are always late, maybe that will wake them up. Money usually talks.

[jframe]

Or, how about getting up 15 minutes earlier so you have more time for your OCD?

I have zero sympathy for adults that can't be on time. It is arrogant to think the world should stand still while the tardy person decides to catch up and pull their load or meet their commitments. :rolleyes:

[Emibub]

Originally posted by TheAcrylicPrincess:
If worse comes to worst I like the idea of changing their hours but not telling them. This doesn't work. I had a great employee who was chronically late. I tried reasoning with her. She said she would get better. She would last about a day and then relapse. I decided to schedule her 15 minutes before I needed her without telling her. It worked for a while but eventually she started being twenty minutes late and so on, and so on.

She even told me she had punctuality issues. She was otherwise an asset to the team but it really put the whole system off when she was late. Break schedules went out the window. I ended up putting up with it because I always felt she wasn't deliberately doing it. Heck, we had a birthday party for someone at work once and she was in charge of bringing the cake. What were we thinking? She was a half hour late.

I've been told people who are chronically late have control issues. It has more to do with controlling the situation than being "always behind".

This person I just discussed was only an employee for me for a year or so. We are very good friends now and have been for a long time. Whenever we plan events we always have to factor in when we think she will be there. Once and only once I told her to come to my house a half hour before everybody else assuming she would arrive on time, with everyone else. Darned if she didn't show up right when I asked her. I had no explanation to her as to why 8 other people seemed to be late.

[Peter Bowe]

As an employer I enter into an agreement with a person. On my side I agree to maintain a safe work place, treat them with respect and pay an agreed upon amount for their time. They agree to work at my shop doing jobs under my direction for a set period of time.

If I fail to keep my end of the deal they can quit and they can sue me. If they fail to keep up their end of the agreement I no longer give them money for their time.

As the employer I am subject to a complicated web of regulation which I take very seriously. I try to be a responsible boss and I expect responsibility in return. I make my expectations very clear and outline consequences in advance. No employer is to small to benefit from a time clock and a manual.

Within this framework I try to run a flexible and humane shop. The employment agreement always works best when it work for both parties.

Peter Bowe
Saline Picture Frame Co.

[TheAcrylicPrincess]

Originally posted by jframe:
Or, how about getting up 15 minutes earlier so you have more time for your OCD?

I have zero sympathy for adults that can't be on time. It is arrogant to think the world should stand still while the tardy person decides to catch up and pull their load or meet their commitments. :rolleyes: Oddly enough, I could get up an hour earlier and I still wouldn't be on time, I can always find something that can be done before I walk out the door.

I hardly, HARDLY expect the rest of the world to wait around while I play catch up. I guess I left out that I have a working lunch and no scheduled breaks and have no choice but to work overtime and NOT because I was late. Not to mention coming in on the odd weekend, so 10 minutes here or there really is not a big deal. ;) I think you'll agree.