hobby to business

[mikesbarn]

Hi everyone! I have been making wooden picture frames for many years. To make a long story short, I am considering making my hobby my livelihood. There are many ways to go about this and I am seriously considering going with a franchise....Great Frame Up, Deck The Walls, FastFrame....I don't want to tell you which one I am concentrating on because I don't want to steer your opinions. I am hoping that some of you out there can give me some input. What are your thoughts on franchising a frame shop? Any franchisees out there?

Better to go it alone, or with the support of a franchisor? How does the franchised stores measure up to the "mom and pop" shop?

That's all for now....thanks to everyone kind enough to throw in their two cents!

Mike

[HannaFate]

If you have no experience beyond making the wooden part of the frames, a franchise may provide you with more training and ideas. They already have all the details worked out. So getting started that way is easier. But then, you are limited by your franchise.

Starting a business on your own is more complicated, but (I think) more rewarding. Then you can make changes as your skills develop, and you learn more what you like to do.

Just keep in mind that making your hobby your work can spoil the fun you have been having.

Also, if you have never worked in retail sales, you have a rude awakening coming.

[Gerard]

Welcome to the Grumble!!
What does a franchise give you that that you can't do for yourself?

[wpfay]

Hi Mike,
The framing end can be learned. The real question is from whence your business acumen? If you are truly looking at a franchise you will probably be too busy running the business to actually do any framing.
If your goal is to become self supportive being a picture framer, I would first seek employment from the best around and learn as much as I could before stepping out in to the business world. Many of us started this way, but I don't think the world is quite as forgiving the unprepared (not that you are) business person as it once was.

Welcome to the Grumble, by the way. You may wish to check the archives for related subjects since I do remember this topic being hashed through in the past.

Oh, and if you want a real immersion into the realm of framing, take a trip to Atlanta the first weekend in September (5-7) for the largest regional framing trade show in the US. (Actually it may just be elevated to "National" status by now.)

[Bob Carter]

I think it all comes down to motivation and skill. If your motivation is to make as much money as possible with a much higher than average income (in our trade) then a franchise might be for you. They have simply made virtually every mistake you might and have cured most of them.That is worth a ton of money.

They might have skills that you don't as well as a support staff to walk you through tried and true methods. You have an instant network of people with similar situations to rely upon.

But, if you have all the necessary skills (from marketing to site selection to retailing in addition to framing), then they might not be the right answer.

You need to take a personal inventory of your skills and abilities and what has motivated you to jump into the fray.

A lot of non-franchisees will tell you it is a waste of money. Do a cost benefit analysis to see f what you will pay is worth what you will get.

You will see a lot of emotion on this topic and your first challenge is to make a Business Decision instead of a Philosophical Decision.

We are not a franchise, but if I didn't have the skills I had, I would have certainly looked into one.

[Emibub]

Originally posted by wpfay:
Many of us started this way, but I don't think the world is quite as forgiving the unprepared (not that you are) business person as it once was.No truer words were ever spoken..............as the Boy Scouts say "Always be prepared". Bring lots and lots of money with you. I mean make sure you have stacks of it stored up, believe me you are going to need it. In fact a dumptruck loaded down with money would not be overkill. Heck I didn't even have a Volkswagen load of money when I started. Now of course I have a dumptruck full of debt. If I had done things right from the beginning I'd probably have a Volkwagen full of debt and a dumptruck full of cash. Are you following me? Sometimes these parallels can be tricky. But the important thing is that we all learn something, I know I have.

Good luck and welcome to the Grumble!

[ 08-30-2003, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: Emibub ]

[McPhoto]

Mike -
I agree w/ Gerard - you have to balance what the franchise is going to do for you in return for your franchise start-up fee, plus the on-going monthly fees that they charge you. I have found that many suppliers (Larson/Juhl, etc) can offer excellent assistance - schools, seminars, good prices on equipment. Attend the shows, ask questions, check the on-line forums (IMHO - This one is the BEST! ;) ) Good Luck.
P.S. - Welcome to "The Grumble"

[AWG]

Mike - TRULY think about this. It's not a matter of making money from a hobby.
Wally, Kathy and I agree - it's NOT a forgiving world economy today, and it'll be easy to lose your a** if youo mess up.

Framing is a great job/career/business. It's NOT something you'll make a ton of money at, regardless if you go franchise or do-it-yourself. There is a lot of self satisfaction of growing something from nothing (new store from empty shell), but I can assure you that there's a lot of angst in making nothing out of something (your money, endless black hole of despair).

Not that I'm advising you against it, but I'd be dead sure this is what you want before jumping in. It would truly suck to take a hobby you love and turn it into a job you hate.

If you've got the business background (thought I did), the money (Kathy's right) and the knowledge (you can learn) then GO FOR IT.

Good luck,

Tony

[Bob Carter]

I think it would be wise to get a few prospectus and compare the average earnings of a typical franchisee, get the average volume and then compare it to the industry average. It might surprise you (It doesn't me)

I will take a slight exception with Tony and his comment that you can't make any money. I think if you asked Jay Goltz, Marc Bluestone or myself (for starters) we might disagree. I'll promise you if I couldn't make any money in this industry, I wouldn't be in it.

But, I do agree with Tony that if you view this as a hobby, you probably won't make any money.

I'm certainly not trying to argue with anyone and I am not endorsing any franchise. But call Larson or anyother vendor and ask what the best selling print line is. Or how about who has the best price on foamcore? Now, suppose you are a member of a franchise and you call some of your fellow members?

All I'm saying is there is worth in these organizations. It might not be for everyone, but I wouldn't make any decision without thoroughly and fairly examining their strengths and your weaknesses.

[mikesbarn]

WOW...thanks everyone for all the great discussion so far on my topic. Lot's of great points and things to consider. Let me fill you in a little more.

Yes, picture framing has been a hobby of mine, and turning a hobby I love into a job I hate would suck...bad. Based on my research so far, it seems that there is some money to be made in the business....I base this on the assumption that cost of goods appears relatively low in comparison to other industries, mark-ups appear higher than other industries, and overall operating expenses appear lower than other industries I have looked at so far. Anyone agree or disagree?

I've been looking at many franchise opportunities from fast food to framing to oil change operations. My interest in and satisfaction I get from framing is why I am looking at this one most seriously.

Here's my situation: I have been working for a large insurance company for 13 years. I manage a claim department and make decent $$ right now. I have always wanted to own my own business, be my own boss, bla, bla...the American dream. I have an MBA, a good work ethic, and the financial resources to finally take the steps toward making my desire of owning my own business a reality.

I am definitely more "business minded" than "artsy minded" if that makes sense, and I would plan to hire a good framer / designer, although I would want to do some of that as well.

Where I am having the most trouble right now is finding good information on the industry itself. Of course, the franchisor I am looking into will provide that, but I'm concerned that their info is bias since they have an interest in me opening a store for them.

Any resources on industry info?

Thanks again to everyone who is responding and for all the welcomes to the board!

Mike

[AWG]

Just to clarify (time to edit is expired):

Many people (myself included until recently) think it's easy to buy some equipment, hang some samples and make money. I think you'd agree that MANY people get into this industry because it's farily easy to learn and not very
capital-intensive to get started.

You CAN make money in this business as Bob stated - I certainly intend to. It's not easy, but then again, nothing worth doing is easy, right??

My suggestion stands - examine it from ALL sides, look at your skill sets both as a business person AND a framer, and research, research, research.

[dns ynko]

Mike, why not come in the business from the side. you have am mba, so why not look into managing a shop to get your feet wet. see if your dream is in framing or just being involed with it.

many larger places look for a person that knows business to help them along. you might help them and try to work a deal...a barter of sorts. you get paid for wonderful business ideas, but you pay back by helping frame. this helps you learn and see the dealings.

i might be way off with this, but who knows?

antyways welcome, the joys of business are making your own mistakes and learning. some stucture of chains put you in one position so you can't learn more about the hobby you love.

good luck.
d

[Less]

The older you get the Less painful pulling nose hair becomes.

I guess when you're young, you don't even know that you have them?

[ 08-31-2003, 01:53 AM: Message edited by: lessafinger ]

[EllenAtHowards]

Many is the person who has been sucked into this industry because it is cheap to get into (not much capital outlay) and the materials look cheap, too. If you have business expertise, you are well on the way. But one of the good sources of picture framing info is PPFA, the Professional Picture Framers' Association. They have a $25 first year membership fee special that has to be the best bargain in the business. I know Ohio has an active local chapter, but whether it would be close enough to you, I'm not sure. Anyway, go to their website and sign up!

[Jason Maranto]

Why don't you work for one of the other stores in the franchise of your choice to see if you like the system and feel if it fits your nature... not the most dignified method of finding out but certainly the most practical and really the best way to see for yourself the potential.

I worked for a mom and pop and a franchise for a few years each before considering opening my own shop... even after that experience I was suprised how different my business turned out to be -- my initial business plan was geared toward using my experience to guide my current business model and I ended up completely scraping my initial business model by month 6... it just wasn't working for my location.

As far as I can see that is the strength of doing it yourself -- you can change on a dime... with a franchise you are committed to a business model which may or may not work depending on variables beyond your control.

This is of course the adage of the dinosaurs and the mammals... the mammals were small and when times got tough they were able to adapt quicker and better than the the big dinosaurs.


Jason.

[Bob Carter]

Hi Mike-When you mentioned your background and formal training,my first thought was "What's this guy doing looking on a forum like this for hard data?" Surely, with the training you have, you must know how to develop a model.

But then, I remember how difficult it was to do quality research on private projects I have been contracted to complete. It speaks volumes on the dearth of information. It requires a lot of extrapolation and assumptions. Validation is tough, but if you put enough numbers together, you can get a clearer picture. But, I have always had a lot of help from inside information. It really requires a lot of adding 2+2 to get 8, if you know what I mean

I would rely upon Franchisor's reports. They have to pass FTC muster and are usually conservative in approach. Contact as many Franchisee's as possible for some independent level of comfort. Those happy will tell you; those unhappy will also tell you.

Franchises are no guarantee of success-they have failures all the time. Most of those failures, in my opinion, are self-induced. We love to blame others for our mis-steps.But they might provide a level of opportunity that might not easily be available as a starting independent.

My biggest question is whether you anticipate multi-store operation or single unit? You may wish to contact me off-forum for further insights.

Also, take Ellen's advice on PPFA. At your level of experience, you might find the business data a little pedestrian. But, with the new alliance with PMA it will absoultely get better. These guys are a class act. But, the framing knowledge is first rate and there are plenty of good folks involved to help. That's true, no matter which avenue you take

[Cliff Wilson]

Hi Mike, I am coming a little late to this discussion, but Bob (as usual) has the advice mostly nailed. I would add that you should visit and talk to independents as well as Franchisees.

I opened my shop in October of last year. (Coming up on my 1st anniversary!) My experience sounds similar to yours. I was 25 yrs in high tech, MBA, Landscape paintings in a gallery, so I framed as a "hobby." I decided it was time to start a business and looked at many franchises until I bumbed into a framing franchise. Then I dug in and did detailed business plans with and without the franchise support. I talked to vendors, shops (independent and franchises), went to PPFA meetings and visited a trade show.

Eventually, I opened an independent frame shop. But I came VERY close to a franchise. A lot depends on you.

I believe there is money to be made. Wouldn't be here otherwise. I was convinced that franchises have a higher success rate. (Due to experience and established "systems.") They make fewer big mistakes. (Fewer not zero.) The averages are better with franchises. If you want to improve your odds, a franchise makes a lot of sense! So, why am I independent?

A few things ...

First, a little analysis is needed behind the numbers. I found that most (all?) of the franchise owners were in it "for the money" as much as "the art." This is NOT true of the independents. This means the numbers for the "independents" trend lower as a function of intention as much as anything else. In my own research when I tried to "factor out" this phenomenon, I felt the numbers reported from the franchisors were in fact consist with the overall industry. That is, if I used only operators I felt had reasonable profit motive. Hard for me to believe, but not everyone wants to make money. Also, (don't tell the IRS) independents are not as good at keeping track of all their revenues. :eek: ;) With a franchise, they make sure every penny is accounted for, because they make their money off a percentage of your gross.

Second, the franchisors can make mistakes. One example I uncovered is a shop that the franchisor's "real estate expert" located and negotiated the lease for. They put it in the middle of a concentration of other established frame shops and are paying one of the highest rents, in a plaza that has (in my opinion) poor companion shops. They are STRUGGLING because of this poor decision. They are hanging on by their fingernails because of the support of the franchise, but a better local knowledge and LOCAL analysis would have prevented this. (BTW, the owner actually commutes to this area.)

Third, Some analysis is needed behind your own motivation and ability. During my own planning; a frame shop closed down and I had an opportunity to purchase the used equipment at a very good price. I took photos of the equipment and sent them in an email to the franchisor I was working with. I asked if the price was as good as I thought it was. If they had answered something like ... "we're not sure, we'd have to look at it, so you're on your own," I might be a franchise owner now. It was that close. Instead the return email said "we don't have anyone free to look at it, so we can not approve the purchase at this time." The word "APPROVE" made me so mad I realized I couldn't operate under their "control." As benign as they were, and all the franchisees said they were "left alone" except when they needed help, I needed to be in CONTROL. I wanted MY business and to answer to only me! My goals and personality just aren't a good fit for a franchise.

You need to think about you.

Have Fun!
Cliff Wilson

[ 09-02-2003, 10:24 AM: Message edited by: Cliff Wilson ]

[Bob Carter]

That appraisal is as good as any I've seen. It's also why I am an independent. Great analysis, Cliff

[mikesbarn]

Thanks Cliff and Bob for your insights. I have to admit, of all the research I have done to date, the one issue I have is how much a franchise will be under MY control. And based on my discussions with many other franchisees, I am hearing the same thing....corporate is there if you need them, otherwise they leave you alone. Of course, one of the reasons I am looking into this is to run my own show.

On another note, I started reading a book at the advice of my attorney called The E Myth, by Michael Gerber (E stands for entrepreneur). I've not compeleted it yet, but so far it's very interesting. The book discusses the three people inside all of us....the entrepreneur, the manager, and the technician. We must have balance between these three to make any small business work. It has given me some insight as to who I am in terms of running my own business. I'd recommend the book to any small business owner. I'll fill you in more when I complete it.

Thanks again for the replies!
Mike

[B. Newman]

Mike, do a search on The "E-Myth." We had a rather long discussion on it a few months ago.

Betty