Disclaimer legalese??

[po' framer]

I know I've seen some threads on this subject but durned if I can plow them up.

Has anyone ever posted their disclaimer words which customers sign on work orders and invoices? The ones about how well and truly they've been eddicated about the appropriate level of conservation for their particular art and how they still choose to be cheapskates and don't care about the art upon which they dropped all the cash?

Orrrrrrrrrrr, if no one wishes to post their particular legalese (weenie words to us engineering types, but that's another story), would you please forward some suggestions in email?

[po' framer]

Sorry about that, got ambused in a cyber-lag!

Framer, please delete the other two and I already slapped my hand for wasting bandwidth.

[Scarfinger]

Just a thought:

I the customer accept and recognize that I have engaged the services of a person that advertises the services of picture framing and not the services of conservation. I accept and recognize that I have engaged with Joe Picture Framer in the visual design of framing the item such that I may hang it on my wall with the goal of visual enjoyment of my item. Joe Framer has pointed out to me that by framing my item and hanging it on the wall it's condition may be changed and continue to change in the future. I accept and recognize that I have not engaged a person advertising conservation services with the specific goals of handling and treating my item in a manor intended to preserve the life and condition of the item. I agree that I could make the decision to seek out the services of a conservator if I felt it was appropriate. I have decided to have Joe framer go ahead and frame my item using her usual framing practices.

[Overcut]

We use "I authorize "Joes Frame Shop" to complete the above Custom Framing as discussed. The concept of Conservation Mounting, Mats and Glass has been explained to me. "Joes Frame Shop" takes no responsibility for Artwork or Framing not utilizing conservation quality products nor for projects not picked up within 30 days of notification of completion. Signature____
This takes us off the hook on several counts where unscrupulous people might otherwise take advantage of the Barbarians good nature.

------------------
Overcut the Barbarian
Frame it or throw it away

[KeepFraming]

Just because something is written down in a "contract" and is signed, doesn't mean it will hold up in the event of a suit...

[Jim Miller]

KF is right -- disclaimers won't save us from lawsuits, they won't assure we would win, and they won't keep us from going broke defending ourselves.

The best a disclaimer can do is make the customer think twice about disregarding our advice. Too many times, I think they only hear 10% of what we say, incorrectly assuming that 90% of it is nothing more than sales pitch.

When you put the pen in her hand and ask her to sign where it says "preservation discussed, but declined for this project", she pauses a moment to rethink here decision. That's our second chance to get the point across.

I've never been sued, but my lawyer knows some retailers who have. After hearing some of his stories, I don't *ever* want to be sued.

In Las Vegas someone said that she's not afraid of lawsuits, because she doesn't know of any framers who have been sued. Well, no, we wouldn't, because they're gone. Out of business. How many of us could pay $10,000 or more to defend ourselves in court? And, by the way, guilt has little to do with it. You could be innocent as a newborn baby and still be bankrupt.

It's a danger we should all take very seriously.

[po' framer]

Sorry for not checking in sooner; been busy. Thanks for the feedback, and I'll give you some of my own in appreciation!

Scarfinger: Covers the bases absolutely, but seems a tad wordy for our uses.

Overcut: More concise and covers an extra base even with that. I don't know if I like the idea of leaving the echoes of those particular words in her mind as she leaves the shop.

KeepFraming: Agreed, Jim's next post illustrates the salient point.

Jim Miller: Perfect wording which gets the point across in a concise, tactful way to tell the customer that they're screwing up (in one's professional opinion) and it's their life and their art and the proper choices were explained in a way that even they should have been able to understand. Ahem.

I wonder if modifying the phrase to read "preservation discussed as being appropriate for this piece, but declined" would work. It strikes me as being slightly more heavy-handed and less tactful. What do you think?

At any rate, thanks to you all again for sharing. This customer, by the way, "he" is a doctor, naturally, and .... awwww let's not go there.

[Marc Lizer]

.

[Bill Henry-]

Although we have a disclaimer form, we have only used it twice in 16 years. In both of these instances, we only use it because we were childish and the customer was an obnoxious jerk.

The disclaimer which goes on our letterhead is simple, somewhat vague, and, we hope, non-threatening. It would probably not hold up in court, but it might discourage any one from suing you. If a lawyer drafted one it would be too complex and intimidating and very expensive. Like most picture framers we have never been sued. If you make a mistake, admit it and correct it!

*************

I have discussed the various options for the treatment of my art work with The Framer's Loft, but decline their recommendations for conservation framing. I acknowledge that the mounting technique I have chosen may reduce the value of my art.

(signatures, dates, work order numbering, blah-blah-blah.)


*************
But, we don't like to use it for the following reasons; nearly all of our customers are reasonable people capable of making decisions once they have all the facts. If you shove a disclaimer in front of them to sign you (1) indicate that you don't trust their decision, (2) imply that you are trying to get off the hook for doing something disastrous to their art, (3) are more concerned with your liability than you are about their art, and/or (4) are trying to feel superior and in control.

But, most importantly, I sincerely believe that if you make them sign a disclaimer that they'll never come back. You make them believe that you think they are idiots. Not good for public relations.

Most of the differences that we have with customers concern mounting their artwork. We suggest that to protect their investment, their signed and numbered artwork be hinged or otherwise be mounted in a reversible, nondestructive manner. They counter that they bought their print for enjoyment and not for investment so keeping it flat and viewable is their primary concern. Okay, that's their informed decision! You've made your point; people understand your concerns and won't hold you liable.

We often suggest that they let us hinge it correctly with the understanding that, if within a few weeks rippling becomes objectionable, they can bring it back and we'll dry mount it at no charge.

Although it costs us a little extra, it shows that we are concerned with their artwork, but are not trying to extract more money from them for the dry mounting. They are part of the decision and we've kept them happy.

As I tell our people, "we can afford to lose a few dollars on a job, but we cannot afford to lose a customer".

[fttom]

Originally posted by Bill Henry:

But, most importantly, I sincerely believe that if you make them sign a disclaimer that they'll never come back. Bill, I have to disagree. At my part-time job, everbody signs a disclaimer. It states that they have accepted what we recommended for glass, mounting, moulding, that they have 24 hrs to change their minds, and we are libel for $250 should something happen to their art.

There is a place for us to check off if they don't accept the glass, mounting, or moulding, and we explain to them that's what we are doing. It doesn't drive anyone off.

In fact, in some cases, it causes customers to change their minds. When they actually have to commit to paper,over their signature, that they have refused the recomendation of a profesional, they, many times will reconsider, and will say, "Well, let's change that. Ok?" It really brings the fact home that they are going against the professional's advice, and makes them think.

[Bill Henry-]

Susan,

My wariness of disclaimers comes from an experience my wife had several years ago. Following the mind numbing event of having to glaze over my sight, lock my jaws in a never-ending smile, and nod my head uncontrollably while “we” picked out fabrics for our bedroom drapes, she went to a custom drape place to order them. In addition to the hefty deposit they required, the store required her to sign a disclaimer.

I personally did not see the document, but, by her assessment, the disclaimer absolved the drapery store from any responsibility in the event that they screwed up. Even if my wife misread the disclaimer, her perception was that the store could have returned an oil soaked burlap drop cloth in place of our ordered drapes and that we would have no recourse but to accept them.

She declined their offer; the drapery store lost a sale. (They are no longer in business, by the way.) Although I would not admit it to her face, I suspect that the store’s disclaimer simply said that they were not responsible if the measurements she supplied were wrong or something to that effect. But, because she perceived that the disclaimer was a weasel wiggle document, she walked.

I fear that if we had any kind of disclaimer regardless of how non-threatening or benign it appeared, our customers would bolt, too.

...and we are libel for $250 should something happen to their artI am curious about your $250 liability, however. What if their art work had an appraised value of, say, $1000? Would you give them $250 even if they dropped off a $30.00 open edition poster for which you could not find a replacement? (I have reread this paragraph and it may sound sarcastic, but I assure you it is not meant to be ... I am simply wondering.)

[fttom]

Bill, what we do if a poster is messed up, is to try to replace it without the cutomer ever knowing that it was lost. On things that are over $250, we assure them that we take very good care of their artwork, which we do, or give them the option to bring it back when the materials come in. If it was a poster for which we could not find a replacement, we have required proof of value for compensation. (PS. I realized that you were asking for info, not being sarcastic.) I personally hate to have people sign the thing, and, in my own shop, do not use one. However, the type of customer that comes into that chain store, and what I get in my shop are two very different animals. :eek:

[BUDDY]

I don't use disclaimers and I am by no means a Legal expert, but if I had to bet I'd put my money on Jim Miller's interpetation.
In a previous thread I discussed having a Lawyer address our PPFA chapter. It has been some time but I think his explanation of the validity of disclaimers was that you can not sign away your responsibility nor the clients rights. What I think he was trying to say was no document can excuse you from being answerable in a court of law if you do something that violates the consummers legal rights or that you should know better than.And as others have said it does give the client reason to worry when you require the signing of such a document.
I would advise anyone to consult a local attorney and not feel safe with any wording no matter how good an logical it sounds to themselves.
I think another way of saying this is "Ignoance is no excuse" the law is the law no matter how we think it should be written.
BUDDY