HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH ?

[OregonJay]

First of all ... for you old timers ... I'M BACK!

For the rest of you ... I'm an old grumbler.

As you know, professionals in the business (Jay Goltz and others) are encouraging us (begging?) to raise our prices so that we make a decent living.

Question: how much is too much?

If I re-structure my price chart for framing based on MY COSTS (rent, labor, utilities, what I'd like to take home, etc. etc. etc) is there a limit?

I'm not afraid to raise my prices!

But how much is too much?

Is it possible to raise your prices too high?

Is it OK to offend a certain percentage of your customers (those who are not willing to pay your prices for framing) in order to only have those who "cost is no object" ?

I've been framing since 1971 and know alot. No brag ... just fact. And I still struggle with setting up my pricing structure to make the most.

Suggestions?

OregonJay

[RonEggers]

OregonJay,

Glad to meet you. I'm an old framer and a new Grumbler.

You raise a tough question. Maybe the experts at Decor would like to take a stab at it.

I make frequent, small adjustments to my prices - one of the luxeries of computerized pricing. I adjust up when I'm feeling busy and my backlog is a little larger than usual. I sometimes back it off a notch when I'm starting to notice a little price resistance from even regular customers. I'm always working from a baseline that covers my costs and a reasonable profit. Not a very scientific approach, but, yeh, I do think you can raise your prices too much. Personally I'm not the type who could deal exclusively with customers who can always spend top dollar on their framing. I like my blue-collar customers.

Now I've got a question for you: Where have you been, if that's not too personal? Looking through old posts and archives, I'm often amazed at the names that have come and gone - and then sometimes come back again. I don't mean to be overly nosey, just curious. Some of us newer Grumblers have a hard time imagining life without The Grumble.

[JRB]

I think you should rephrase the question to
"How much are you worth"

Your value is whatever you think it is, Not everyone is going to agree with your assessment of yourself. Some will think your worth more, others will think your worth much less. The reality of the situation is your opinion of your worth to the buying public and their opinion of you.

If you worked for a large corporation and you boss thought you where worth $30.00 an hour, that is what you are worth, unless you disagree with that price, then the ball is in your court. It is totally up to you to decide if you stay or leave, if you stay, then you are worth $30.00 hr. that's it. If you leave, then it is up to you to find a job at a higher wage, if you find $40.00 an hour, then that is what you are worth.

Setting your prices is pretty much the same thing. How good of a product do you put out as compared to other shops in your area. If your cranking out ####, your prices will probably be much lower than the fellow who does legendary work.

The clientele you have will reflect the quality of your work, not necessarily the prices of it.

Myself, I like customers that feel I am worth more. I do not like customers who feel I am worth less, I don't care what color their collar is.

You can not please everyone no matter what you do. If you charged $10.00 each for every picture you framed, no matter the size, complexity, moulding, mats, glass etc.
I will guarantee you that there will be some people complaining about your high prices.

John

[Jana]

Hi Jay, I was wondering where you have been. You're one of the moderators on Warped Moulding and I realized we hadn't heard from you in a while. You'll have to send your picture to Ron so he can post it, if you haven't done so already.

This is a good topic. I think pricing is probably the hardest part of the job for framers.

[framechick]

Make the distinction between what your clients can pay and what they will pay. Get clues from other services they use, what they drive and wear. Scrillions of dollars are spent to condition us to believe that we deserve SUVs and satelite dishes. Consumers are not (yet) so conditioned about framing. Many people who seek framing wear designer clothing, routinely eat out, spending $200 or more for dinner with wine, they take annual family vacations. . .you can see where I'm going with this.

I keep a wide enough range of mouldings that I can usually put something together in whatever price range is appropriate. I'm not as quick as I used to be to offer a less expensive moulding at the first sign of price resistance. I'm discovering that clients don't mind paying once they are assured they are getting something for their money.

30 years of experience is worth mentioning. I take every opportunity during a sale to demonstrate that I have a wealth of knowledge. I'm certainly not competing on price. I also emphasize that this is a product that will last longer than most things they buy and that it is completely custom.

Someone walked out of my shop today because she thought $65 was too much for a 30"x36" glass replacement in a dried out frame. I toyed with the idea of doing it for less and then the teeny Rob Markhoff on my shoulder reminded me that I lose less money doing no work than work than jobs that aren't profitable.

Less than 2 hours later I wrote up 3 frames (approx. 22" x 28") for $1550 each (just a bit of shameless glee)

[This message has been edited by framechick (edited October 27, 2001).]

[MerpsMom]

OJ, we simply must ask: why do you stay away so long? It's kind of like having one of the guys in the old neighborhood show up at the local bar. Anyhow, good to see you again. http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif (OJ is one of the originals.)

[RonEggers]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JRB:
Myself, I like customers that feel I am worth more. I do not like customers who feel I am worth less, I don't care what color their collar is.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Okay, John, I scratch the blue-collar comment. I knew that didn't make sense the moment it flew off my keyboard! I agree with you. I don't want customers coming to me because they think I'm cheap. I want them to come to me 'cause I'm good (and unimagineably pleasant to deal with.) It does seem that many of my best customers are those that have to dig a little deeper to pay for really fine framing and they seem to appreciate it more. That's what I really meant to say . . .

[JRB]

Ron, now your cooking,

John

[framechick]

I never mind when someone says "Oh I can't afford to spend that on this project!"

That to me is much different from "Why is it so expensive? It's just four sticks."

I never discount, but if someone is truly on a budget vs. being cheap I can find a sollution - a moulding that's been sitting that I wouldn't mind selling at or near cost just to free up space. . .

How much is too much? Prices that aren't related to anything. $600 is too much for a 16 x 20 Nielsen #15, with single mat and regular glass most places (but maybe not if your shop is in Hawaii or Greenland and shipping costs are high) Where I am now I would get about $125 for that. Last job, under $100 but close to it. First job, about $35. . .and that shop closed after 7 years in business.

[OregonJay]

Wow ... thanks for the replys. I appreciate the feedback.

Here's a simple statement I was told by a very successful framer, "You should continue to raise your prices until 25% of your customers say it is too high".

I've never tried it. Have any of you?

OJay

[JRB]

I've always looked at it by how much work I'm doing. If I can't keep up with the demand for my work, I raise my prices in order to slow the demand down, I've also done the opposite, when I first started my business.

John

[Don]

How do you compare to other shops in your town? Ask this to yourself. If you do not know then do some research. This question is not just a comparison on price but with quality and service as well. I do have a shop a quarter mile away that offers extremely low prices but there service has much to desire. Their quality is mediocre. Find this info. and you will have a much better idea of own business and where you need to go with it.
A number of years ago I decided I wanted to be one of the higher quality as well as higher priced shops in town. I suceeded in doing so. I did just recently raise my prices but I am bringing in a few "not so high-end mouldings". I feel that I have reached the level at which I cannot go any higher without causing harm to the business.
Do the research. I have been told that if one out of ten people don't walk out of your store do to price then your prices are to low. It has been hard but I have tried to measure my status by this quote.

Don

[Mitch]

OJ

Welcome Back!