Cashless Society?

[Framing Goddess]

I have noticed over the last 3-4 years a very steady and sharp increase in how many of our customers pay with plastic- especially in the last 2 years. Has anyone else found this to be the case?
Is this new cashless society of ours something to worry about?
And what does the legal battle between Walmart and the credit card issuers portend for this?
And just what do "smart cards" have to do with it all?
Just looking for some different perspectives ...
anyone care to enlighten ...
The Goddess?
tanks!

[jframe]

Hi ETFG,

People do love those airline miles, and they use their GM cards for $ off of new cars. It's called incentive.

Jo

[JRB]

A lot of people are using debit cards, they look the same as M/C & Visa but function like writing a check, it just debits their checking account when they use it.

John

[Janet L]

Edie, I'm always surprised when one of my customers actually pulls out a checkbook. And when they pull out CASH, I almost faint!

Janet

[R Markoff]

RE: JRB and others who are accepting debit cards and may be running them through their CC machines like a "charge."

If you find that the number of your "charges" as a percentage of your transactions are increasing, ask for an analysis of the types of transactions you are actually receiving (most of us receive this info monthly but you might not know how to decipher it.)

If you have a significant number of DEBIT cards that you are running as charges, you may find it more cost effective to add a PIN pad and ask your customers, "Credit or ATM?" the way many stores (particularly supermarkets) are. If your volume is high enough, you will more than pay for the pin pad because you are being charged a premium for accepting debit cards as credit cards.

Also, if you are a growing business, (or your credit card business is increasing,) you should ask for an analysis of your account on an annual basis. You may find that you can shave some percentage points (even hundredths count) from your discount rate.

[Framing Goddess]

It's those debit cards that inspired me to mention this...
My business is one that runs debit cards through the system as a credit card (so now we are paying a discount/fee on what we didn't have to in the past with a check.) And yes, it is important to keep an eye on the credit vs. debit amounts, but like most small businesses, I suspect, we have a LONG way to go before we can go into the PIN pad biz. And when we DO get to that point, guess what? We get to upgrade all of our equipment at our expense and still pay the discout fee.
Is this just the cost of doing business or is it extortion?
In fact, I believe that that is the basis of Walmart's legal complaint. In other words, anytime a new time-and-money-saving plastic method of exchange is introduced, it costs the retailers more in monthly fees, discount fees/percentages, "set-up" fees, equipment leasing, etc. But who is "saving" here? It is COSTING us more, so not only are the issuers SAVING money, it seems that "they" are enhancing an already-sizeable revenue stream for themselves. And, of course, some of those charges are negotiable, but smaller businesses have much less leverage in these negotiations than do the Bigguns. But it obviously costs the big guys some serious bucks also.
My questions/concerns are (A) What specifically is Walmart's beef? Is there more to it than we know? If Walmart feels that it has a valid legal complaint, shouldn't us small guys be taking note of this?
And the incentives on credit cards...! I have had customers turn purple-faced back in the days when I would say, "sorry, we don't take American Express." OF COURSE I gave in. Do our customers know that we have to bump up our prices to cover these costs?
Let me explain that I am fully aware of the costs of doing business... has this cost crossed the proverbial line? Where will it all end?
Any thoughts on this?
Perhaps I am dramatizing a bit, but a little healthy paranoia every now and then in the interest of ejicashun couldn't hurt now, could it?
So, whaddayall think?
-etfg (tanks Jo, I like that)

[John Ranes II, CPF, GCF]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by R Markoff:
If you find that the number of your "charges" as a percentage of your transactions are increasing, ask for an analysis of the types of transactions you are actually receiving (most of us receive this info monthly but you might not know how to decipher it.)

If you have a significant number of DEBIT cards that you are running as charges, you may find it more cost effective to add a PIN pad and ask your customers, "Credit or ATM?"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually what Rob is asking his customers is credit or debit?..... Debit card is the way many other First World countries have been for some time....Canada, New Zealand, Australia, UK, etc. The US. had been a real haven for a credit society, so it's been only recently that the "Debit Card" concept has caught on.

I've discovered that it really takes a pretty good volume for us, as retailers to afford the debit - pin pad method of doing business, and for it to have a real "cause and effect" difference on our bottom line.....(that could change down the road, however).

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>originally posted by Framing Godess:I have had customers turn purple-faced back in the days when I would say, "Sorry, we don't take American Express." OF COURSE I gave in. Do our customers know that we have to bump up our prices to cover these costs?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Framing Godess,

Did you really bump your prices to cover this?.....I believe we do whatever it takes to make the sale!.....and how much did it cost you to take that AMEX card? 1.5-1.8% more than a MasterCard or VISA sale.....that's it! That's Nothing! That's just being a good business person. How many of us would pay this additional amount to garnish additional sales.....??? Most of us are not using a POS system and loosing more than that in moulding price increases than this!


And by the way.....Walmart might simply be trying to throw their weight around.....they are just as capable of "screwing up" as the smaller guys too, ya know!

John


------------------

The Frame Workshop of Appleton, Inc.
www.theframeworkshop.com (http://www.theframeworkshop.com)
Appleton, Wisconsin
jerserwi@aol.com
--------------------

[Bogframe]

My two cents...A client doesn't think as much about the price when they charge or debit. They DO think more about it when they have to cut a check or count out cash. Cold as this may seem, this is the way that I've seen it lo these many years. The percentage you have to pay to the card companies is more than made up for in increased sales, especially if you practice "upselling".
For those of you unfamiliar with this concept, upselling is the practice of adding those touches that will enhance the frame, protect the art better, and get a bigger "wow" out of your customer. Some of these include: V-Grooves, Inlays, Fillets, UV Glass or Plexi, AR Glass or even (shudder) Non-Glare Glass.
Credit/debit cards tend to take the sting out of the higher prices that we, of course, must charge for these services.

------------------
Seth J. Bogdanove, CPF
22 years framing and still loving it!
The website for my new company is: www.La-Belle-Epoque.com (http://www.La-Belle-Epoque.com)

[Sherry]

I have a small business account with American Express and the added percentage rate is almost a 1/2% more than the rate for MC/Visa... nothing really but my customers love it! The actual rate I pay is small compared to some of the banking fees charged by the larger brokers, Unified in particular. I switched banks two years ago because of those fees and it's amazing how much money I saved in the first year, just from not having to pay membership fees, statement fees, etc. It pays to research all the fees associated with taking plastic and find the best deal for your shop. And to me it doesn't matter if it's debit or credit, the money's in the bank the next day.

[Lance E]

In NZ we have debit cards everywhere, marketed here as "EFTPOS" (Electronic Fund Transfer at Point Of Sale) and ATM's to match (for instance a street less than a mile long in our city centre has eight on it and four more in shopping centres off it). The smallest of businesses would be losing out without EFTPOS capability due to our heavy reliability on it as a form of payment, the average person pays 80% of retail purchases with EFTPOS, that figure will have increased by now.

From a sales point of view it is fantastic, very easy for "add on sales" from POS merchandising, almost all POS software programmes can be integrated to minimise mistakes, reduction of cash in the tills requires lower floats (we now see less than five percent cash) and lessened problems with staff dishonesty (nationwide), and it is by far the quikest method of payment.

The "PINpad" question is odd to me, as with several others. On our machines we swipe the card (whatever it is) and the customer uses the PINpad to choose their Cheque, Savings, or Credit account (most credit accounts now have PIN authentication). Why would you not have available as many options as possible to take money, are you in business or not? Do you have the ability to use your machines for the verification of cheques?

John, I sincerely hope that FG increased pricing to cover the additional expense, this should be considered a capital expense and must be paid for somehow. Out of curiousity, how much does it cost for a machine and setup there? Here it costs (to buy) from around the NZ$800 mark, a good high volume machine is NZ$1900+ (but worth every cent).

I'd love to hear an Ozzie perspective...

Lance

[John Ranes II, CPF, GCF]

Lance,

Most retailers and framers in the U.S. probably lease (Monthly about $25-45) their credit card "Swiper" and "Printer". Some brands are manufactured in combined units. We've always purchase ours and you're looking at about $195-$250 for the swiper and $250 for the printer. (US$)

Americans have been a Credit Society since "Charge Plates" were first created in the '50's. (Showing my age, but I remember my parents referring to them this way http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif ) Because of this, we require additional hardware (Pin Pads) if we as retailers embrace these new debit cards and want the customer to be able to define their transaction. Otherwise, we swipe them and don't treat the card any differently than any other type of credit card. Of course our processing company will be charging us different rates: Debit cards, credit cards, swiped cards Vs. typed in cards, out of state cards, out of country cards, etc. etc.

If I had a frame shop in NZ or Canada for that matter, then an EFTPOS machine would be the only way to go, but here in the U.S., there's a slightly different mentality at this point.......

If I had to hand my customer a pinpad and make them decide which way they want to pay, I find this synonymous to the fast food chains making the customer fill up their own soda....handing us an empty cup! I've always believed that we are behind the counter to service the customer, not ask them to "ring up their own order"!

John

[Framing Goddess]

As if we don't have enough to do...
Here is the address for info on the Walmart etc. lawsuit I mentioned above. It is very interesting. http://www.cpny.com/news.htm
If someone would e-mail simple instructions on how to make this a link, I would be so grateful.
Thanks,
ETFG

[Framing Goddess]

In a high voice,
"Never mind!"

[Framing Goddess]

The complaint is spelled out at http://www.cpny.com/complaint.htm

[Framing Goddess]

I think this is BIGBIGBIGBIG...
Here is the introduction copy and pasted from the above address:

1. The Retailer Plaintiffs own and operate thousands of retail stores throughout the United States. Similar
to more than three million United States retail establishments, the Retailer Plaintiffs accept Visa and
MasterCard credit cards as a form of payment along with cash, checks, travelers checks and other
plastic credit, debit and "travel and entertainment" cards.

2. The Retailer Plaintiffs' acceptance of each of these forms of payment is voluntary, with the exception
of two. They are forced to accept two debit cards, the so-called "Visa Check" and "MasterMoney" cards,
issued by members of the Visa and MasterCard bankcard associations. The Retailer Plaintiffs are forced to
accept these debit cards as a condition of being able to accept the ubiquitous and dominant Visa and
MasterCard credit cards. Without these credit cards, neither they nor virtually any retailer can operate
successfully.

3. The Retailer Plaintiffs, on behalf of themselves and a national class of retailers, who accept Visa and
MasterCard credit cards and are therefore forced to accept Visa Check and MasterMoney, and NRF, IMRA
and FMI, three trade associations of retailers whose members and affiliates have annual sales of more
than $2 trillion, challenge these tying arrangements under the antitrust laws. The tying arrangements
force members of the class to accept Visa Check and MasterMoney cards. These arrangements force
retailers to pay supra-competitive, exorbitant and fixed prices for acceptance of these involuntary
payment systems and raise the prices paid by all of their retail customers. The arrangements also limit
retailers' ability to accept and receive the forms of payment which they deem cost effective and efficient
for themselves and their customers.

4. Visa and MasterCard's longstanding and coercive practice of tying Visa Check and MasterMoney to
Visa and MasterCard credit cards has now become particularly costly as Visa and MasterCard have
embarked upon aggressive national advertising campaigns for the Visa Check and MasterMoney cards.
The tying arrangements have resulted in the rapidly escalating use of the Visa Check and MasterMoney
debit cards and have forced the Retailer Plaintiffs and class members to accept them and pay fees which
are supra-competitive, exorbitant and fixed. The tying arrangements are alleged to violate Sections 1
and 2 of the Sherman Act.

5. All of the Plaintiffs seek declaratory and injunctive relief, and the Retailer Plaintiffs also seek damages
to redress these violations of federal and state law.

[MerrillGraysonCPF]

One thing that I have found about debit cards is that in this area many banks have a limit on how much can be "debited" in a day using the card as a "debit" card.

3 banks in our area only allow $200.00 per day. Limitations like this can affect how often a card would be used as a debit card as opposed to as a credit card. You have to know your area in this decision process.



------------------
Merrill E. Grayson, CPF
Picture Perfect of Nora Corners
Indianapolis, IN
merrill@customframer.com
www.customframer.com (http://www.customframer.com)

[Jim Miller]

We've had the pin pad setup for several years because, as Rob pointed out, it offers savings in the discount rates.

Some time ago our local banks started charging their cardholders more when they use their credit cards for debit (ATM) transactions. Now most of our customers refuse our requests to process debit transactions.

The bank is going to get the money either way -- from customers in debit transactions, or from merchants in credit transactions.

[Cheryl Crocker CPF GCF]

The fees I pay for accepting credit cards is based on how much monthly I am doing. It is currently close to 1 1/2%, so running the debits through costs me less than having a separate set-up.
AMEX is more than 4%. That's crazy. ALL my clients who have AMEX, have a VISA or MC and I am more than happy to let them know exactly why I don't take AMEX.
Cash sales are around 5%...if that.
I am also leasing my equipment. I purchased equipment at the last store which became obsolete within the year...($800 intitially, then another $650 for a new machine). I get free equipment upgrades, free tape, other items which, for a business my size, adds up quickly when ala carte.

[Janet L]

Cheryl, I don't accept American Express either for the same reasons as you noted. I also recently cancelled the one I used to pay $75 a year to carry it in my wallet (and rarely used it). It doesn't bother me at all if people "leave home without it".

Janet

[Lance E]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John Ranes II, CPF, GCF:

If I had to hand my customer a pinpad and make them decide which way they want to pay, I find this synonymous to the fast food chains making the customer fill up their own soda....handing us an empty cup! I've always believed that we are behind the counter to service the customer, not ask them to "ring up their own order"!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If we were to ask our customers "Credit or Debit" they would be offended for the intrusion into their financial matters, we can see it on the POS screen if we want to though. I do not see any similarity with filling cups and pushing a single button on the PINpad, it is so natural for us here now that it never will be an issue. Totally diferent environments, very interesting.

Credit or ATM, is ATM the popular term or a brand of card? (ATM stands for Automatic Teller Machine here, I'm not having one of those huge monsters in my shop (they also work with CC's)
Lance


[This message has been edited by Lance E (edited October 10, 2001).]

[Dermot]

The situation is very similar to NZ here in Ireland, we also have what is called a Laser Card which is a direct debit to your bank but also allows you to get cash back from the retailers who participates.

I agree with Jim one way or the other the Banks/ Finical institutions will get there "Punt" "Dollar" or what ever currency they are out to get, and as for a single currency in Europe there will be very hefty cross border charges on currency transactions, the intention was there should be non but the financial guy's came up with new reasons why there should be new charges, it's hard to win sometimes.

[John Ranes II, CPF, GCF]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lance E:
....it is so natural for us here now that it never will be an issue. Totally diferent environments, very interesting........<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Lance,

My point exactly....it so natural there, that "I'd go with the flow!". As Dermot pointed out, it's a Laser Card in Ireland. I know that it's an InterAct card in western Canada.

If I ran a retail business there, I'd go along with what people are accustomed to. When I first visited NZ / AU, I was amazed by the frenquency I'd run into those "Debit Terminals" in shops......even the smallest kiosk in an outside market seemed to have one! Educate us....Is it similar to the U.S., where you can lease/rent/own one or is it only a rental deal?

By the way, our ATM machines are the same, and they're usually found as free standing kiosks, outside of malls and grocery stores, etc.........NOT inside of retail shops.

John


------------------

The Frame Workshop of Appleton, Inc.
www.theframeworkshop.com (http://www.theframeworkshop.com)
Appleton, Wisconsin
jerserwi@aol.com
--------------------

[This message has been edited by John Ranes II, CPF, GCF (edited October 10, 2001).]

[John Ranes II, CPF, GCF]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janet L:
Cheryl, I don't accept American Express either for the same reasons as you noted. I also recently cancelled the one I used to pay $75 a year to carry it in my wallet (and rarely used it<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Janet,

Your decision NOT to personally use an AMX card is indeed just that, a personal decision. But don't let that impact your business decisions to assist customers in spending money in your shop.

Granted, you may not see that many AMX transactions compared to MC or VISA, nor DISCOVER for that matter either, but the truths still remain......<UL TYPE=SQUARE>

<LI>People who use AMX cards tend to spend more than double per transaction than those using MC/VISA. We've found those statistics to bear out in our store sampling size of one!
<LI>Yes, AMX card holders do often carry other credit cards, BUT the AMX card is the one they WANT to use........why? Program points (Best in this competitive industry), Business use, tracking of details, they want to pay off their balance in 30 days.
<LI>Success by Association - Don't miss the marketing value of this - people like to visit stores that they feel are in their social-economic range......."Do you take THE CARD?" It may be snobery, but it's still there.
<LI>Once you set up your account to accept whatever cards.....YOU'RE done! There's nothing else to do, but accept the customer's money. It's not like you have to do a lot of extra work each time.
<LI>People who use AMX cards are more passionate about businesses that won't accept their cards!
[/list]

I don't encourage, nor get very excited when a customer comes into our shop with 3 children under toe! One is child is in a pram, and the other two are wandering about the shop. But if I show any major sign of not wanting to "Accept" this customer as potentially valuable as any other customer, then I'm making it difficult for this person. I feel the same rules apply with accepting payment.

I'm not really going to make this alternate form of payment go away.......therefore, I believe I should make it as easy as possible for my customers to pay me in whatever manner they wish. This I believe is simply good business practice.


We accept:

MasterCard
VISA
Discover Card
American Express
Checks
and Cash (with proper ID) http://www.thegrumble.com/framer/ubbs/smile.gif

John




------------------

The Frame Workshop of Appleton, Inc.
www.theframeworkshop.com (http://www.theframeworkshop.com)
Appleton, Wisconsin
jerserwi@aol.com
--------------------

[Janet L]

John, I appreciate your opinion. In the past 6 years, I've had ONE customer ask if we accept Am.Ex. and when I told them no, they immediately whipped out the old faithful MC and Visa and asked me to choose.

Janet

[Cheryl Crocker CPF GCF]

John, I've heard that argument before and I'm sure it is valid as far as your store accepting AMEX. I have had 3 people ask in a year and a half. I track this.

My point is why on earth should I pay more than double for the priviledge of accepting a credit card? At one point, the percentage rates were more than the commission I paid employees. Give me a break. My employees were the ones upselling to people who had zero problem paying on another card... why pay AMEX more when they do nothing to sell art or framing for me?

Sorry for the rant, but you would think AMEX would figure out that, with all the negative commercials about them, they might want to take a look at the money they are losing because merchants don't want to accept their card and pay exhorbitant rates!!

(Upon checking back to '95-'96 when we did accept Discover and AMEX, the sales on AMEX were not greater...also only one sale on Discover)

[AnneL]

Have to agree with Cheryl and Janet. We've almost never had anyone ask to use AMEX in over 10 years since we started taking credit cards. Can only recall one or two people. Have had more inquirys for Discover lately though.

I think some of this is regional. In some areas, not alot of people have AMEX cards. Also, the MC/Visa signs are all over by the POS, so I think people just automatically reach for those. We are in a very traditional area and most people here still pay with cash or check, even on large purcahses.

------------------
Anne LeBouton

[Framing Goddess]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John Ranes II, CPF, GCF:

Lance,

My point exactly....it so natural there, that "I'd go with the flow!"...
John

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

John and all,
I think this thread has effectively pointed out how ubiquitous and IMPORTANT "plastic" (for lack of a more comprehensive term) has
become to all retailers worldwide. We need to be able to accept these forms of payment or we will not be able to compete effectively.

They have us by the proverbial you-know-whats.

And, yes, we will go with the flow. We have no choice... which is the point of this whole lawsuit I mentioned. If anyone checked out the link above they would have read who has decided NOT to "go with the flow." They include folks like Wal-Mart, The Limited, Sears Roebuck, Safeway, Circuit City, Payless Shoe Source, etc. Perhaps the retailers mentioned as plaintiffs WILL be able to effect some sort of change.
So, my sense is that us little guys should keep a close eye on this development and not just assume that we will always be at the mercy of the credit card issuers.

I would also like to point out that as good business people, it is important to see beyond our emotions about plastic-- if it'll benefit your business to take all forms of paymnet, then you are FOOLISH to do otherwise. I do not discourage any form of payment- I figure the easier I can make it for customers to spend money here the better I will eat! And, John, YES I did bump up my prices a bit to absorb the increased cost of accepting AMEX. Why on earth should The Goddess absorb that? ( What, and give up her manicures?!)
And the fact that so many of us snarl and snap about the fees that we have to pay these issuers, points out to me that maybe we are "on the money" on this one... maybe we ARE being ripped off. Wal-Mart thinks so. And is willing to do something about it.
End of rant...
E the FG

Dare I suggest that the PPFA could have a role here?

[Bob Carter]

I'm with John on the AMEX issue. We see an active role with it and I'm confident that his reasons are valid here, as well. We haven't done anything scientific to prove or disprove the claims. But I will speak to my own passion about my own use.

There are two signs that tell me instantly that a store or vendor doesn't fully commit to customer service. The first is companies that don't have a toll free number; making me pay for a call to place an order or straighten out a problem. Or worse, toll free for sales only.

The second is limiting my ability to use a method of choice for payment. The more times you say no to a customer, the less likely they are to say yes to you. Like, no we don't accept this card, or no we don't accept your check. The easier you make it for someone to buy from you, the easier it will be for them to do exactly that.

So, my question on a purely business perspective, is how much on average do you (or would you pay)in a month to carry all major cards? $5, $10. hardly enough to worry about. If your light bill went up $5 a month, your not going to turn off some of the lights. Just be careful not to lose sight of the bigger goal-making it as easy as possible for someone to spend money.

We use our AMEX aggressively. As John pointed out they have the best rewards program in the trade. I recently got a new car in response to following Pres. Bush's call to spur the economy. Instead of writing a check, I whipped out that Bad Boy and say Charge on. They didn't blink a bit; they made a sale. Exactly what I wanted. Do the math on their discount, and our percentages seem pretty insignificant. Plus, I got all those points.

But, I will start another thread about taking checks-I know I will lose more on uncollected checks than any differential between Visa and AMEX

[AnneL]

I'm not against taking AMEX per se, it's just that no one has requested to use it here in a couple years. The last request came from an out of state customer. Most of the locals have Mastercard, Visa, or Discover and I take 2 of the 3 and am looking into the other.

------------------
Anne LeBouton

[Lance E]

Amex, interesting point that John brought up about the higher sale value. I will pop in some stats for September this year relating to this, of all sales in the >$5,000 range 82% were paid by Amex, sales in the the >$2,500 - <$5,000 range had 54% Amex payment options, the percentage drops considerably from there on down until <$50 sale value it hits 0.4%.

Dermot, the cash with purchase option always has been an integral part of the NZ EFTPOS system and is probably the single biggest reason it works.

For the record we accept:
Cash
Cheque
Visa Card
Master Card
Bank Card
American Express
Diners Card
EFTPOS
Gift Vouchers
Automatic Payments

As far as charges go, consider jioning a Retail group similar to the PPFA I'm certain that you will benefit from membership.

[gearold]

Credit cards have been the payment of choice , in the past 2 months I have had 17- 20 customers put major equipment on cards , I'm talking 6000.00-12,000.00... Most have said the intrest rate is lower than going to the bank.I put a Harley on a Amex once ,to pay for it in 30 days, but it seems more companys are making payments instead of paying them off every month.... It is kind of wierd.......... Gearold

[CAF]

Dear All:

As someone who has lived for some time in Europe, the US and Oz (and a few others), I was amazed at how primitive banking was in the US. The prevalence of cheques amazed me.

In Europe banking has been electronic for some time. Here in WA (Wait Awhile state - Australia) we would not be without an EFTPOS machine. The amounts are credited to the business bank account within one or two days (AMEX actually deposits faster than anyone else).

I went to an EFTPOS seminar presented by an upstart local company. The future is that a client will swipe a card to pay a transaction - personal details on the nework will flag that his/her pertner's birthday is today (for instance) and print the address of a local flower shop around the corner on the bottom of the credit/debit card receipt. This is just an example...

Another feature that the company was planning to introduce is that any merchant could accept payment through the EFTPOS machine for utility bills, telephone bills, etc... and receive a small commision for it. Not suitable for our business, but perhaps for a busy mall location...

This all makes cheques seem somewhat achaic, I think... I am doing more and more of my banking on-line (BTW NZ seems to be slightly ahead of Oz when it comes to electronic banking options).

In Oz most have their EFTPOS machines "free" from a major bank, and pay monthly rental (which covers upgrades, and sometimes stationary). One can also purchase the devices, but like any high-end technology, they can date quickly, so why bother? Our rental is about Aus$25/month. We have a group rate on debit/credit card rates through our local Picture Framers Guild. It is much better than any rate I could have achieved by direct negotiation, and saves my annual membership fee many times over...

Cheers,
Mike Wilson

PS> We took a lot of cheques this month - phase of the moon, or something...

PPS> I can pay 9 out of 10 of our suppliers with credit cards, and shall enjoy the rewards - bugger about Ansett though :-(

[This message has been edited by CAF (edited October 11, 2001).]