PFM Dec 2001 Counter Intelligence

[Marc Lzier]

Sorry,

I couldn't leave this one out.

[Jana]

I always enjoy reading your column.

What I was wondering was, how much are those metal frames? Ball park retail. Now I sound like a customer.

I've seen those types of frames advertised in the trade mags. They look like they are heavy.

[Marc Lzier]

Thanks Jana,

If memory serves me correctly the glass size is 28 x 28

I think one like that runs 250.00 to 350.00.

That means a sell point of, al least a minimum of 500.00. I think by "value" of "look" it can sell for 750.00 to 850.00.

As for weight. Alum weighs less than brass or steel. But they are HEAVY no matter hwo you slice it.

BTW: I going out of town 'till the first. So no word from me 'till then.

But that doesn't mean y'all can't post a whole passel on all the other thread starts.

[Jana]

Have a good trip!

My next question is, for when you get back, how do you hang them? Are there special hangers incorporated in the construction of the frame? And then, how do you hang them on the wall?

The frame that you featured looked like a work of art itself. I liked the way they did the design at the mitered corners.

Just curious, because I don't think these would go over big in Mansfield. Maybe Cleveland. Framing Goddess, what do you think?

[PAMELA DESIMONE,CPF]

I didn't know you were the "Counter Intelligence" guy! I enjoy your column, and have found it helpful. I have C&J's welded metal frames, and they are beautiful. Heavy, like you say, so we hang them low. I would rather have a broken toe than a concussion if one ever fell off the wall. I plan on looking into the line you featured when I have some time. Just beautiful, and the kind of thing I like to offer.

[PAMELA DESIMONE,CPF]

Correction:it is A Street Frame welded metals we have. C&J is a finished corner manufacturer.

[Marc Lzier]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jana:
They look like they are heavy.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of the frame you are looking at (3 x 1 x 1/8 aluminum), the 9 inch cheveron, that means half or a 9 x 9 frame weighs 1.14 lbs This means a 30 x 30 will weigh about 14 lbs. With plex and an 8 ply mat and backing you are at about 16 or 17 lbs.

Here's the fun one: The 3 x 3 x 1/8 stainless steel cheveron weighs 3.02 lbs. . Meaning the same frame will weigh about 36 lbs before, and 39 with all the stuffing inside.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jana:
My next question is, how do you hang them? Are there special hangers incorporated in the construction of the frame? And then, how do you hang them on the wall?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Our "light" wire is rated 10 lbs, and our "heavy" wire is rated at 40 lbs. (we use "Sheen" from Tower-Secure in Madison, IN).

The frames come with wood strainers. So a 1 x 2 3/4 wood strainer is on the one you see, and 3 x 2 3/4 would be on the 3 x 3 profile.

In theory "heavy" wire and a 4 hole strip hangar with 7/8 screws would hold on either frame.

We actually twist two lines together on each hangar, and use two hangars on each side. And twist the lines from the two hangars together. This means 4 lines across the back., and hence (by math, but not by fact) a 160lb rating. The weak point will be the screws (divided by 16 screw points), with about 1 lb or 2.5 lbs on each screw point.

The wood will also be a weak point if you use few points, or place the screws close to the inner edge.

BUT we have not had a wire or wood fail on heavy frames. It is the skinny frames that always fall off the wall from wire or wood failure.

Of course there is the d-ring option. As well as security hadware, z-bar or a french cleat. We just did an instaltion of a 8 x 8 frame with 1 x 4 oak mldg, and 1/4 plexi. That sucka was heavy. The french cleat worked just fine. Cheap. Easy. Quick. Reliable. You can't go wrong there.

If you are worried about wire, then use the other options.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jana:
The frame that you featured looked like a work of art itself. I liked the way they did the design at the mitered corners.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think they make the frame. Do the machine brushing. Masking tape the front. Draw the design. Razor blade along the line. Remove the tape where they want to paint an leave it where they want metal to show. Just like the way you paint flames on a car.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jana:
Just curious, because I don't think these would go over big in Mansfield. Maybe Cleveland. Framing Goddess, what do you think?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, it's got to be the right art, and the right customer.


Oh yes, Pamela. That's me. I tend to not be a recognized name. That's fine. I can get away with more mischeif that way.

[Framing Goddess]

Hey, any frame emblazoned with flames (get it, huh huh, get it???) would go over mighty big in my house, but I would probably need a crow bar to get bucks like that out of my customers' pockets--at least lately. I am in the poccess of training them to accept and-yes-embrace prices like that, but so far I have been successful mostly with the standard closed corner gold deals. (can we say "traditional?") sigh
-e

[Marc Lzier]

As a follow up to the price question:

I called to get an exact price on that frame. In a 30 x 30 it is $195.00 wsle (what you pay), and $390.00 retail (what they think it should sell for.

Sure you can sell it for $390.00 (don't forget to add shipping costs) easier than $750.00 but if it is worth $750.00 to the customer, why disappoint them?

Any thoughts folks?

C'mon. Hurl them thisaway!

Jana, I bet

[MiterMan]

Wait a second here...the suggested price is $390, you can and do sell it for $750...and you're asking us if we think you should charge the higher price?

Duh!

Do it!

As I used to tell a dear friend who thought the people who paid $300K and more for a small 2-bedroom "cottage" in a great part of town were idiots, it is WORTH WHAT PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO PAY FOR IT!

It's a market economy. If the price is too high, people will stop buying it, the price goes down, and people will buy again and an equilibrium is reached. High school economics and Adam Smith win again.

[PAMELA DESIMONE,CPF]

It is easier to sell a product, especially at higher than suggested retail, if you are the only one around who has it. I like to make a profit as much as the next guy, but I would be happy with a $190.00 profit on something when the only labor involved was opening a box.